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Post by Esteban Erik Stipnieks on Dec 13, 2009 14:05:18 GMT -5
Lenny does not need promote
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Dec 13, 2009 18:05:52 GMT -5
Wow!! Sometimes a person is able to sum up a situation with the perfect witty line. Now I can't take credit for this beauty, but I do want to share it with this forum. I came across it on youtube. It really does say it all!! "Looks like the hurricane gets downgraded to a drizzle." Funny and dead-on accurate.
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Dec 13, 2009 22:09:19 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, I'm going to have some T-shirts printed off and give to my friends for X-MAS. The front will say Melissa "the drizzle" Hernandez. I may even start up a website and sell them on-line and then give the proceeds to all the hard-workin' people that dished out money expecting to see Melissa fight on Dec. 4th....
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 13, 2009 22:11:51 GMT -5
Lenny does not need promote What are you talking about Esteban? |
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 13, 2009 22:35:38 GMT -5
Wow!! Sometimes a person is able to sum up a situation with the perfect witty line. Now I can't take credit for this beauty, but I do want to share it with this forum. I came across it on youtube. It really does say it all!! "Looks like the hurricane gets downgraded to a drizzle." Funny and dead-on accurate. Todd your entitled to your opinion and I understand how you feel but before Hernandez came she created a little hurricane of news and know she has engulfed NM with nothing but wind of anger, questions and controversy. If you ask me Hernandez has lived up to the name hurricane because she has definitely left nothing but a trail of destruction and disaster some for her and NM. |
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 13, 2009 22:38:21 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, I'm going to have some T-shirts printed off and give to my friends for X-MAS. The front will say Melissa "the drizzle" Hernandez. I may even start up a website and sell them on-line and then give the proceeds to all the hard-workin' people that dished out money expecting to see Melissa fight on Dec. 4th.... Todd you should ask your boy, Lenny if he is going to give some of that money back. Nobody is scared of Holly Holm. She has never knocked any opponent, even though may have bruised or bloody some, she ain't scary. Now I know the cult of Holly Holm wanted another crowd win and they got one but it wasn't Melissa Hernandez. Melissa saw something wrong like it, believe it or not, that is your chose but I do ask Holly and her cult, her team and her manager/promoter is she a fighter who will stand up for what is right but i guess as long as Lenny is manager this will continue. Speaking of Lenny, Lenny sure hasn't said that he will give a refund or anything to those who lost their money. Holly's team hasn't not released a statement and Holly hasn't said anything about the issue. A fighter is a leader who doesn't just lead in the ring, they lead outside the ring. Holly is to quiet, she makes me feel like she's a robot or like Ivan Drago in the beginning of the Rocky movie. |
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 14, 2009 0:08:00 GMT -5
ADVICE TO ALL ORGAINIZATIONS: You look pathetic casting blame until there has been a complete examination of the facts with both sides stating their stories. Right now, I have heard Melissa's. I have not heard Holm's/ the promoters. SO NO, THERE HAS BEEN NO REAL INVESTIGATION. IMO. So why do you consider that Melissa's story "has been heard" but the others have not? An "investigation" would have to be of all of them IMO. You can't have Melissa being "heard" just by making a statement to the press while all the others who've also made statements to the press get "investigated". So far as I am concerned they have all been heard equally at this point and their statements have been equally covered by boxing media, but NONE of them has been "investigated". I (still) have no idea why you said Melissa has been "heard" but not the others. |
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Post by Rick Scharmberg on Dec 14, 2009 8:47:50 GMT -5
I do not think that Melissa's side of the story will get out. I wonder what her myspace will page will say. We does the webmastering for Fresquez? Who will always root for the boxer from New Mexico? Her FACEBOOK says she is fighting next week. Melissa actually has a lot of support. |
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 14, 2009 11:19:54 GMT -5
I do not think that Melissa's side of the story will get out. I wonder what her myspace will page will say. We does the webmastering for Fresquez? Who will always root for the boxer from New Mexico? Her FACEBOOK says she is fighting next week. Melissa actually has a lot of support. I support Melissa and i can believe that just as their are people who stick to holly then their are also people who stick to melissa. |
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Post by TD on Dec 14, 2009 11:45:38 GMT -5
DEE:
"So why do you consider that Melissa's story "has been heard" but the others have not? An "investigation" would have to be of all of them IMO. You can't have Melissa being "heard" just by making a statement to the press while all the others who've also made statements to the press get "investigated". So far as I am concerned they have all been heard equally at this point and their statements have been equally covered by boxing media, but NONE of them has been "investigated".
I (still) have no idea why you said Melissa has been "heard" but not the others."
DEE- I heard what Melissa said about the bout. She was interviewed on camera. Holly- no interview on camera, the Promoter- no interview on camera. And lets face it, it was HIS responsibility to clear up the mess. It ain't like somebody was asking him to perform a miracle.
What I don't understand is why YOU don't understand that there has been NO REAL investigation. Put people's statements on the record and a formal decision can be made that is supported by the actual events, as witnessed/testifyied to.
So far, there are conflicts. Camon, now we even hear that the promoter " ...then ordered a re-wrap..." Who heard that? Really. Of course we hear an offhand comment that "someone" demanded more money over the phone? Really. Who heard who say that?
Look, this is so bad, that even your version of what constitutes an investigation is lacking any formal resemblence to an investigation!!!!!!!!!!!!
Didn't Bernie ID Lenny as a "smart guy"? Wouldn't a "smart guy" have solved this immense riddle and got the show back on the track? OK, lets say he faced REAL obstacles. What were they?
Camon, the finger pointing still rolls on. So say what YOU will, there has been NO real investigation. And the fans took the jobbing that night. Sorry, that's why an investigation lends crediblity to future events.
TD
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 14, 2009 11:48:34 GMT -5
Note that Forum member Bernie McCoy has interviewed the Hernandez team and what they said is reported on WBAN at www.womenboxing.com/NEWS2009/news121409hernandez.htmBelinda Laracuente has clarified her "good to go " remark", thusly ""I saw her hands already wrapped and said, 'good,' but, in no way was I indicating any type of acceptance, particularly if I thought it was an issue with my fighter. When I found out that was the case (Hernandez was concerned no one had seen Holm's hands wrapped), we formally requested a rewrap and the commission refused. Our team regrouped, waited a few minutes and repeated our request, which was, again, refused. It was at this point, that we took the position that the rewrap issue could endanger the bout."As the wrap was seen by Belinda during the third round of the co-main, and they waited a "few minutes", it appears likely that Winkeljohn was still conering for esquibel when the immediate rewrap was refused. Hernandez states that "The issue of not seeing my opponent's hands being wrapped, something that is critical, especially given recent events in the sport of boxing, became a distraction in my mind. Do I think 'something funny' was going on, probably not, but the fact that no one on my team had witnessed the actual wrapping of her (Holm) hands would have been a tick in the back of my mind all night and you need a crystal clear mind when you climb through the ropes."Trying to get the other fighter mentally off balance is part of the run-up to any fight, of course. Hernandez was doing it with her trash talking all week, so Holm's team may have been gaming Hernandez back at the start of the rewrap dispute, as well as waiting for Winkeljohn to come back to the dressing room so Holm could have a rewrap done by HER trusted trainer. Of course, only one team actually cut off the negotiations by physically walking away and that's the team who got the most grief from fans and sanctioning bodies, rightly or not. Melissa Hernandez loves to play the head games up front, but her comments to Bernie McCoy make me wonder if she actually got out-gamed as it got closer to fight time. Bernie McCoy hits the nail on the head IMO when he sums up Given all the boxing "officials" from local commissions, national sanctioning bodies, along with other experienced boxing personages who were, literally and figuratively, "in the house," why wasn't there one boxing person who was prepared to step up and take charge of the situation? Because the fact is, no one did. There was a lot of talking between and among all the principals, but nowhere was there someone, anyone, from any of these boxing organizations, which were, ostensibly, charged with assuring that the Holm/Hernandez bout happened, who simply took charge and put everyone concerned in one room and said, in effect, "we're not leaving until we settle this and get on with what we're here for, ten rounds of good boxing between two good female fighters."I think that was the bottom line that none of the alleged adults got everyone to, so the sport and the fans lost out. |
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Dec 14, 2009 12:50:45 GMT -5
Well, time to move on so this will be my last post on this subject. Perhaps I have been too hard on Melissa "the drizzle" Hernandez. Self-preservation is a critical component in the animal kingdom of which we humans are most definetely a part of. Could it be that way, way deep down inside, where only she could feel it, she realized that she had bit off more than she could chew? To paraphrase a famous San Francisco movie cop "a person has to know their limitations." And in my opinion, Melissa "the drizzle" knew the outcome if she actually got in the ring with Holly. Probably a repeat of the Duda Yankovich fight, with Melissa "the drizzle" getting her nose broke and the ref having to stop the bout. I have nothing against trash talking. And I don't care if the person that does the trash talking ends up eating crow. At least get in there and compete. Before the Erin Toughill - Laila Ali fight in June 2005, Erin dished out some smack. She didn't prevail in the ring, but at least Erin went through with the fight. If there happens to be a Holly Holm "cult" in existence, I'm sure not a card carrying member. The spirit of competition is the most important thing. I would have been just as happy to have seen Melissa win on Dec. 4th as her opponent. Other than the New York Yankees and Nascar's Kevin Harvick; which I like to see lose everytime they compete, it all comes down to "decide it on the track, on the court, in the ring, on the field, inside the cage etc." My final point is this. If it had been Holly Holm that had walked out of the fight Dec. 4th, I would have been just as outraged. As long as neither woman had the H1N1 flu or had been ran over by a 300 pound man rushing to get to the casino's "all u can eat buffet" or some other last minute medical concern, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to bail out of the bout. Absolutely no reason. And that is why I no longer have any respect for Melissa as a boxer. Not because I belong to some supposed "Holly Holm cult!"
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 14, 2009 14:48:41 GMT -5
So far as I am concerned they have all been heard equally at this point and their statements have been equally covered by boxing media, but NONE of them has been "investigated". What I don't understand is why YOU don't understand that there has been NO REAL investigation. Camon, the finger pointing still rolls on. So say what YOU will, there has been NO real investigation. Teedy, you will never understand what I am saying if you don't listen. What part of "NONE of them has been "investigated"" in my post didn't you understand? Why you want to claim I am saying the opposite of what I am saying, and then disagree with that, is a total mystery to me and it's a big waste of time. Yours, mine and everybody els's. I said I didn't understand why you felt that Hernandez had been heard and Holm and the promoters hadn't. The fact is that ALL of them have spoken to the media (whether you heard or saw them or not) but NONE of them has answered to an investigation. Have you got that yet? I said NONE of them has answered to an investigation. As in "there has been no investigation". But ALL of them have spoken to the media. If you will just try (for once) to listen to what was actually being said, this thread could be a lot shorter. |
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Post by TD on Dec 14, 2009 14:55:03 GMT -5
I don't think there is ONE person alive who is glad that Hernandez and Holm didn't get to fight.
Not to beat a dead horse here, but, the Issue is a fighters right to inspection / approval of an opponents hand wraps and gloves.
Surely you see how this issue keeps rearing its ugly head thruout boxing history? The loaded gloves routine.
My final thoughts on the matter, unless provoked,
1. Melissa was well within her right to demand a re-wrap.
2. When Melissa was refused a re-wrap ( sounds like refused twice) she was in her right to not fight.
3. Everyone involved shoulders some of the blame and they all OWE the boxing fans that were there that night SOMETHING. What that is, I don't know.
4. Until some sort of make good is given and performed for those fans, this fiasco stays as OPEN as a CUT on boxing's eyelid.
5. In my mind, boxing's reluctance to look into this fiasco and everyone's instant blame aimed at Melissa is totally in their self-interest. They have removed her right to inspect the wraps as part of the sport or at least THEIR part of the sport.
6. When you list out who pays the most for this fiasco, its Melissa. And now she has to live with the baggage she was part of creating. The ball is in her court for her next fight. She really has something to prove and whoever she fights next, they will have to do the same thing Holm's corner refused to do, let her inspect their wraps.
Over and Out!
TD
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 14, 2009 18:07:56 GMT -5
Well, time to move on so this will be my last post on this subject. Perhaps I have been too hard on Melissa "the drizzle" Hernandez. Self-preservation is a critical component in the animal kingdom of which we humans are most definetely a part of. Could it be that way, way deep down inside, where only she could feel it, she realized that she had bit off more than she could chew? To paraphrase a famous San Francisco movie cop "a person has to know their limitations." And in my opinion, Melissa "the drizzle" knew the outcome if she actually got in the ring with Holly. Probably a repeat of the Duda Yankovich fight, with Melissa "the drizzle" getting her nose broke and the ref having to stop the bout. I have nothing against trash talking. And I don't care if the person that does the trash talking ends up eating crow. At least get in there and compete. Before the Erin Toughill - Laila Ali fight in June 2005, Erin dished out some smack. She didn't prevail in the ring, but at least Erin went through with the fight. If there happens to be a Holly Holm "cult" in existence, I'm sure not a card carrying member. The spirit of competition is the most important thing. I would have been just as happy to have seen Melissa win on Dec. 4th as her opponent. Other than the New York Yankees and Nascar's Kevin Harvick; which I like to see lose everytime they compete, it all comes down to "decide it on the track, on the court, in the ring, on the field, inside the cage etc." My final point is this. If it had been Holly Holm that had walked out of the fight Dec. 4th, I would have been just as outraged. As long as neither woman had the H1N1 flu or had been ran over by a 300 pound man rushing to get to the casino's "all u can eat buffet" or some other last minute medical concern, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to bail out of the bout. Absolutely no reason. And that is why I no longer have any respect for Melissa as a boxer. Not because I belong to some supposed "Holly Holm cult!" There is a clip on youtube where a boxer is getting beaten seriously bad. Now the fight was between a young however after being beaten so badly, this same fighter goes over to congratulate the guy who beat him however when the boxer touchs his glove it feels heavier than normal. So the boxer that got beat, yells out "check the gloves" countinously and in the end the boxer who did the beating end up having his gloves or wrap i think soaked in some material. This is a true story, i saw that clip and i can understand why melissa is careful. no one what that type of thing to happen. |
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Dec 15, 2009 13:04:19 GMT -5
Yes, I made reference to the Panama Lewis incident from June 1983. It was a televised bout on ABC. It was the father of Billy Collins Jr. that felt the gloves and realized that something was wrong. The hand wraps had been dipped in Plaster of Paris, which dramatically increased his punching power. A tragic event for sure. The fight ended the boxing career of Billy Collins and he was died 9 months later when he drove his car off a cliff.
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 15, 2009 17:00:58 GMT -5
TD's final thoughts show that he has indeed only fully "heard" Melissa's side of it. Here's a take that uses all the information I've heard, from all sides. I don't disagree with TD, but I think he's left some key points out.
Melissa indeed had the right to request that someone from her team should observe Holm's wrap, start to finish. The right to request that is explicitly in the ABC rules which are what the Isleta commission says they follow. Having made the request, her team also had the responsibility to be available at the time the wrap needed to be done, owing to the time constraints on Holly's trainer. Somebody dropped the ball on setting up the initial observation, and we don't know whether it was sloppy organization (e,g, not setting a specific time, or the Hernandez team wandering from her dressing room, as they evidently did). If the request had been properly made, then the Isleta commission was wrong for not saying to hold the wrap, and thus the co-main event, until a reasonable effort had been made to find Hernandez's representative. What would be "reasonable" depends on whether a time frame had ever been set during which they were to be available.
Melissa should also have designated WHO was to sign off on Holly's wrap as her observer. Belinda apparently observed the RESULT of the wrap but not the wrap process, and said "good to go", but that was not good enough for Melissa (if she wanted to have the wrap observed from start to finish, she might could have made that clearer to Belinda, for example, or that Belinda's signoff on the finished wrap would not be good enough for her - Melissa).
Finally, the initial refusal to rewrap immediately (i,e. while Winkeljohn was unavailable due to cornering in Esquibel) was eventually rescinded, but by that time Melissa had gone to her hotel room and was also asking that her purse be almost doubled. I'd like the timing of those steps to be clear, so we knew whether the Holm people dragged their feet after Winkeljohn was available again, or whether the Hernandez people left the arena before he was. Somebody dropped several balls over TIMING of these steps, which is why it got out of hand, so the timeline MATTERS, not just who demanded what, or refused what, a full investigation would ask WHEN and how much time that left for anyone to "do the right thing".
Some missing parts, i,e, answers as yet unstated by anyone AFAIK, are -
1. WHEN and WHY did Holm's team decide to wrap her early, and then WHO attempted, and HOW HARD, to locate the Hernandez team? (The commission has said the team were not in her dressing room at the critical time, but not how long they looked elsewhere for them).
2. Was Belinda Laracuente EVER designated as the person who was supposed to sign off on Holly Holm's wrap? If not, who was? The wrap issue whould have been taken more seriously by both sides, it seems, it's not something to be demanded at the last moment from a dressing room, there should have been a process in place from the start if Melissa knew she felt so strongly about it - she is now on record as saying she regrets not having talked boxer-to-boxer with Holm about it, and I agree. (Nobody I have met who knows Holm at all thinks she would be a wrap cheater BTW, so I still think the odds are long that this was a tempest in a procedural teapot that escalated into - a hurricane)..
3. When did Melissa leave the arena? Was it before or after Winkeljohn finished cornering for Esquibel?
4. WHEN was the first demand for extra purse money made? Before or after the agreement to rewrap Holm? Or earlier in the week? (That affects the next question)
5. How long did Fresquez try to negotiate an end to this before he bailed and asked Cisneros if she would fight?
The commission said they DID give Cisneros some quick physical examination and talked to her manager about her prior medicals (done for the Philly fight, but "paperwork in the car"). It must have taken them a little time to get even the very rudimentary screening they apparently did do for her (without even weighing her in!) and for her to borrow the gear in which she fought. So Fresquez must have bailed out and asked her to fight fairly early in the piece after Melissa asked for the rewrap. I'd like to know HOW early, as I continue to wonder if Fresquez suspected there might be a last-minute problem over the purse, given how quickly he seems to have solved HIS problem of finding a last-moment replacement).
Other than those missing details, I agree with TD's final summary, though doubtless he won't agree that I agree with that either. It would set SUCH a precedent here if he did ...
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 15, 2009 17:13:11 GMT -5
this same fighter goes over to congratulate the guy who beat him however when the boxer touchs his glove it feels heavier than normal. So the boxer that got beat, yells out "check the gloves" countinously and in the end the boxer who did the beating end up having his gloves or wrap i think soaked in some material. This is a true story, i saw that clip and i can understand why melissa is careful. no one what that type of thing to happen. That's the level of cheating that Belinda probably could check by observing the finished wrap on Holm. But the reason for checking the entire wrap start to finish is to make sure nothing more subtle is wrong. Proper wrapping is an art, a fighter needs someone who can do a good job to wrap HER, and someone who knows about the details to observe her opponent's. The wrap needs to be done and watched by experts for BOTH fighters' safety. |
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 15, 2009 18:17:45 GMT -5
Another question I have, in the light of some comments made by people who were backstage, is - did anyone observe Melissa Hernandez making any of her normal preparations to fight? It's been stated that when the commission went to observe HER wrap, she was still in street clothes and also that her team were generally "not tending to business". This, if it's true, sounds odd as you'd expect an experienced pro boxing team to be setting her focus, and theirs, well before fight time.. PM me if you prefer to answer privately.
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 15, 2009 20:33:14 GMT -5
Melissa Hernadez has been suspended. newmexicoboxing.com/?p=2610I have only one thing to say and that is Melissa needs to take legal action. |
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Post by TD on Dec 15, 2009 21:28:51 GMT -5
TD's final thoughts show that he has indeed only fully "heard" Melissa's side of it. Here's a take that uses all the information I've heard, from all sides. I don't disagree with TD, but I think he's left some key points out. Melissa indeed had the right to request that someone from her team should observe Holm's wrap, start to finish. The right to request that is explicitly in the ABC rules which are what the Isleta commission says they follow. Having made the request, her team also had the responsibility to be available at the time the wrap needed to be done, owing to the time constraints on Holly's trainer. Somebody dropped the ball on setting up the initial observation, and we don't know whether it was sloppy organization (e,g, not setting a specific time, or the Hernandez team wandering from her dressing room, as they evidently did). If the request had been properly made, then the Isleta commission was wrong for not saying to hold the wrap, and thus the co-main event, until a reasonable effort had been made to find Hernandez's representative. What would be "reasonable" depends on whether a time frame had ever been set during which they were to be available. Melissa should also have designated WHO was to sign off on Holly's wrap as her observer. Belinda apparently observed the RESULT of the wrap but not the wrap process, and said "good to go", but that was not good enough for Melissa (if she wanted to have the wrap observed from start to finish, she might could have made that clearer to Belinda, for example, or that Belinda's signoff on the finished wrap would not be good enough for her - Melissa). Finally, the initial refusal to rewrap immediately (i,e. while Winkeljohn was unavailable due to cornering in Esquibel) was eventually rescinded, but by that time Melissa had gone to her hotel room and was also asking that her purse be almost doubled. I'd like the timing of those steps to be clear, so we knew whether the Holm people dragged their feet after Winkeljohn was available again, or whether the Hernandez people left the arena before he was. Somebody dropped several balls over TIMING of these steps, which is why it got out of hand, so the timeline MATTERS, not just who demanded what, or refused what, a full investigation would ask WHEN and how much time that left for anyone to "do the right thing". Some missing parts, i,e, answers as yet unstated by anyone AFAIK, are - 1. WHEN and WHY did Holm's team decide to wrap her early, and then WHO attempted, and HOW HARD, to locate the Hernandez team? (The commission has said the team were not in her dressing room at the critical time, but not how long they looked elsewhere for them). 2. Was Belinda Laracuente EVER designated as the person who was supposed to sign off on Holly Holm's wrap? If not, who was? The wrap issue whould have been taken more seriously by both sides, it seems, it's not something to be demanded at the last moment from a dressing room, there should have been a process in place from the start if Melissa knew she felt so strongly about it - she is now on record as saying she regrets not having talked boxer-to-boxer with Holm about it, and I agree. (Nobody I have met who knows Holm at all thinks she would be a wrap cheater BTW, so I still think the odds are long that this was a tempest in a procedural teapot that escalated into - a hurricane).. 3. When did Melissa leave the arena? Was it before or after Winkeljohn finished cornering for Esquibel? 4. WHEN was the first demand for extra purse money made? Before or after the agreement to rewrap Holm? Or earlier in the week? (That affects the next question) 5. How long did Fresquez try to negotiate an end to this before he bailed and asked Cisneros if she would fight? The commission said they DID give Cisneros some quick physical examination and talked to her manager about her prior medicals (done for the Philly fight, but "paperwork in the car"). It must have taken them a little time to get even the very rudimentary screening they apparently did do for her (without even weighing her in!) and for her to borrow the gear in which she fought. So Fresquez must have bailed out and asked her to fight fairly early in the piece after Melissa asked for the rewrap. I'd like to know HOW early, as I continue to wonder if Fresquez suspected there might be a last-minute problem over the purse, given how quickly he seems to have solved HIS problem of finding a last-moment replacement). Other than those missing details, I agree with TD's final summary, though doubtless he won't agree that I agree with that either. It would set SUCH a precedent here if he did ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DEE, maybe you missed what YOU said, "that an investigation had been completed into Holm Vs. hernandez". Dee, ask your "investigation like questions" to the "investigators". They have obviously decided to suspend Melissa after conducting what YOU called an "investigation". I call it a lynching or in nicer words, a rush to judgement without all the facts. Finally, which investigator that YOU knows, knows or ascertains that someone from Melissa's camp said, "ITS NOTHING THAT MORE MONEY WON'T FIX" or so many words to that effect. This statement, which was spread around real fast, makes Melissa's actions suspect. Did she say that? Who then? To who? Who would fight at Isleta Casino for Frequez promotions again? What fan is going to go to one of those shows? Everyone condemning Melissa is out for revenge and trying to make up what they lost...but what was the gate that night? Did anyone lose on that deal? This fits mil. spec. for F-U-B-A-R ! And it ain't even close to being over, despite Dee's exclamation that " the investigation has been completed". Tsk tsk. WHO SUSPENDS ISLETA IF THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG? And the ABC confederation of boxing commissions is following ISLETA's LEAD?  ? Good Luck to Melissa, you are gonna need a first class lawyer before this is said and done. This is like Groundhogs Day, again, for the first time, all over. - as Yogi Berra might have said. TD I corrected the format in this post to make clear who was quoting what, as Teedy's original was mis-formatted, as well as being an outrageously incorrect statement of what I said (see below) ... Dee |
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 16, 2009 1:23:31 GMT -5
This fits mil. spec. for F-U-B-A-R ! And it ain't even close to being over, despite Dee's exclamation that " the investigation has been completed". If you can show me where I said that, I'll stop asking where they found your brain during your colonoscopy, Teedy. Why even try to make quotes up like that in a Forum whose other members can read? I said NONE of them has been investigated! Where in your FUBAR world did you think I'd said an investigation had been "completed"? |
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 16, 2009 1:25:42 GMT -5
DEE, maybe you missed what YOU said, "that an investigation had been completed into Holm Vs. hernandez". You are just proving all over again that you never pay any attention, Teedy. Not only did I never say that, I said just the opposite, that there had been NO such investigation. So far as I am concerned they have all been heard equally at this point and their statements have been equally covered by boxing media, but NONE of them has been "investigated". I said I didn't understand why you felt that Hernandez had been heard and Holm and the promoters hadn't. The fact is that ALL of them have spoken to the media (whether you heard or saw them or not) but NONE of them has answered to an investigation. Have you got that yet? I said NONE of them has answered to an investigation. As in "there has been no investigation". But ALL of them have spoken to the media. If you will just try (for once) to listen to what was actually being said, this thread could be a lot shorter. What part of "NONE of them has been investigated" didn't you understand? |
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 16, 2009 12:05:08 GMT -5
Dee, if they haven't had an investigation I think its ridiculous to suspend Melissa Hernadez. I bet the only reason Hernandez was suspended was because they ABC and WBC want lenny's money. You see if they were to not do in Lenny's favor they ABC and wbc worry that lenny would drop boxing from his cards all together.
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 16, 2009 21:43:44 GMT -5
I bet the only reason Hernandez was suspended was because they ABC and WBC want lenny's money. You see if they were to not do in Lenny's favor they ABC and wbc worry that lenny would drop boxing from his cards all together. ABC - the Association of Boxing Commissions - should not have any relation with a promoter. I also don't think Fresquez will drop boxing from his cards while he's able to fill seats with fans. Like I said somewhere else, there isn't a lot of pro sport in Albuquerque so the pro boxing cards he puts on, and especially the women's action, have more local impact than they would in other sports markets (like in bigger cities). But - bottom line - I too am very surprised if ABC upheld the Isleta suspension of Hernandez and thus extended its range, because I did not think Isleta was a member of the ABC, and because many of the Isleta commission's own actions and decisions on fight night were questionable, too. I think even the locals (like Chris Cozzone) expected isleta's suspension of Hernandez to be an empty gesture because it would only have had effect at Isleta itself, where I feel pretty sure Hernandez would have no intention of ever fighting again, nor would Fresquez be likely to ask her. I am also surprised that the sanctioning bodies have been so uniform in their response, but I can imagine several possible reasons for that as well as them hoping for future business from Fresquez. Several of them had people on-site who could have had the opportunity to observe some of what was going on and form their own conclusions. There have been statements to the media and some backchannel buzz about the Hernandez team "not tending to business". It's important to Melissa's case that she WAS at some point seriously preparing to fight ... so were her team really starting to prepare her? That's another part of what SHOULD be investigated properly, along with why Holm was allowed to wrap early (before the co-main) without a Hernandez rep being present, etc. etc. The statements made to the press and in private emails should be made formally by having a proper investigation IMO. But with all of the sanctioning bodies now having apparently closed ranks to Hernandez's disadvantage, I can't see who would now launch that investigation, unless the state of New Mexico decides to investigate the conduct of boxing cards at the casino as a part of its licensing of the casino. The Isleta commission is not directly responsible to NMAC, so it might be up to the state government to get involved another way, if it wants to. One take-away from all of this for boxers and their managers may be "don't WALK AWAY" from a venue if a rules dispute gets started like this. If you make a protest, STAY and make it, insist on your rights but STAY where you are. Don't be the one who WALKS, stand your ground. One of the few things that was unarguable about the wrap dispute was WHO walked, and that may have been the decider for some people. Note: it's since been clarified that ABC has NOT honored Isleta's suspension of Hernandez and will in fact investigate the procedures of the Isleta commission in approving Cisneros to fight - see below - Dee |
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 16, 2009 22:09:16 GMT -5
P.S. Another question about timing. Nobody could have known ahead of time how long the co-main event would go on. It could have ended early, with an injury, TKO, KO, etc. Boxers need time to prepare, physically and mentally, time to start focusing on what's ahead, put distractions aside, etc. You won't assume the co-main is going the distance when you start your own preparation. It's been reported that Hernandez was still in street clothes with the co-main event in progress when the commission representative went to her dressing room for HER wrap. Can that be confirmed? And if so, just WHEN did that happen? Melissa's supporters have a picture that she was all fired up and ready to go, eager to compete but she balked over the wrap issue and then walked. Her detractors have a different picture - that she never really intended to fight that night, but latched onto the wrap issue as a pretext to walk. I was not there, I don't have an opinion about this, unlike some others on this Forum. But clarifying the time line of who was doing (and NOT doing) what WHEN while the co-main was in progress would help me form my opinion. And would be a an important matter for an investigation if there was one, IMO.
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Post by Esteban Erik Stipnieks on Dec 17, 2009 1:11:28 GMT -5
Bottom line Melissa got messed over by the media.
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 17, 2009 7:59:38 GMT -5
Bottom line Melissa got messed over by the media. Melissa's own version of the events has been given good coverage. The problem is, it conflicts with other peoples' versions of the same events, and the TIMING of the events also turns out to be critical, but not made clear by what's been said. I think there have been rushes to judgment all around, about Hernandez, about Holm cheating, and about Cisneros substituting. I think everyone sees in these media reports what they want to see, what fits their preconceptions of who would do what, while many key facts about WHEN things happened, in what order, still remain unclear. You expect the local media in Albuquerque to favor the local girl but the independent media have covered all sides of the story and both sides have been represented and advocated in the online Forums, including this one. The "mess" is in the unclear details, some shortcuts that were taken by the Isleta commission at the time, and the subsequent lack of a proper careful investigation to clear them up. After the events, it is the sanctioning bodies and the ABC that came down hard on Melissa, without fully explaining why they did not believe her side of the story. That leaves too much to guesswork and speculation by people (like us) who were not there, IMO. |
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 17, 2009 8:09:34 GMT -5
Bottom line Melissa got messed over by the media. well yes i agree however both teams need a class on comunication skills but read all of this: newmexicoboxing.com/?p=2617 |
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Post by TD on Dec 17, 2009 13:01:28 GMT -5
What "cowboy" posted the supposed "fact" that ABC had agreed to follow Isleta's suspension of Melissa Hernandez? ?? Somebody made a report of Isleta's suspension to Fight Fax and then jumped to the conclusion that because Fight Fax works for/with ABC, that ABC was suspending Melissa. WHAT F-N BULLSHIT. ------------------- The Isleta has reported an indefinite suspension of Ms. Hernandez’s boxing license to Fight Fax, the Official Certified Boxing Registry of the ABC. If the Isleta Boxing Commission failed to be formed pursuant to the federal law, if would appear this suspension has no merit. Until the Isleta Boxing Commission provides the documentation requested herein, the ABC will direct Fight Fax to list the result of each bout as a non-supervised fight and the participants will not receive credit for a win or a loss on their official boxing record. This shall also hold true for any future professional boxing events held on your reservation and/or supervised by the Isleta Boxing Commission until your Commission can prove that you are in full compliance with the Federal Law. Sincerely, Timothy J. Lueckenhoff President Association of Boxing Commissions -------------------------------------------------- ISLETA and SUPERVISED should never again appear in the same sentence regarding a boxing show. Ryan Wissow takes a shot within this too as the ABC letter points to his sanction of Holm-Cinsneros as suspect. So ISLETA AND FREQUEZ can respond quickly to announcing they came to the conclusion that Melissa is suspended but Isleta cannot answer a phone call correctly from ABC? ? FUBAR. NO, REPEATING FUBAR. Yet to be investigated, did Isleta follow ABC guidelines regarding the taping of Holm's wraps in the presence of Hernandez camp? The ABC letter indicates that a real investigation is about to begin, not a lynching, as has been the case to date. TD |
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