HOlm V Hernandez did not happen

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

why not and whoose side of the story can you trust?

[Jason Ozuma]

I am so glad I didn't pay 8.95 lol
I had a bad feeling, I was wondering what was going to happen I mean i was really hoping for holm to go down but this happening....Is a complete shock
No matter who says what this is what will happen
The hurricane Hernandez will be looked down alot more then Laila Ali and any fighter in the world history.
People will be talking about this match for a while
This is a true disappointment,

Now one thing i am sure of is that I don't believe Hernadez wouldn't be afraid of Holly Holm
I do believe that an investigation is in order
Hernadez will be scared bad for this financially and mentally
Even if Hernandez lost this fight, she could have rebound at least but this is the worst thing to happen to her and Fresquez Productions.
No actually worst for Hernandez because
because
Holly Holm has fans
Holly Holm has the news on her side
what makes it worst is that "They Hollie's corner offered to rewrap her hands"

This one action shows that "THEM" that they Hollie and Fresquez productions was doing everything in their power to make this fight possible and that Melissa was trying to avoid fighting and that she knew she would lose. She was making excuses to avoid fighting and getting hurt. That is what THEY want THEM to believe. And they are alot of THEM that don't mind disgracing Hernandez and everything dealing with her. Especially when Maureen Shea has just been knocked down and that Melissa talked so much about Gleason's gym. Yall we need to pray for Melissa.


However with Ana riding on the filipino express to run over Donna Biggers and Natascha the Rag fighting in Heavy oversize women then Kina fighting Scragg another rag fighter , I was hoping that this Holm vs Hernandez would have been the best match of month or even year and she, Melissa would have ousted Holly on the canvas but i wonder...was this a setup from the beginning to make even more news but by who?? and why?? and for what reason?? Well have to wait and see but if this wasn't a setup this is a horrible mess and i don't think a normal janitor can pick up all this crap that has just happen

[fightfan]

www.fightnews.com/?p=31585

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

I do not think that Melissa's side of the story will get out. I wonder what her myspace will page will say. We does the webmastering for Fresquez? Who will always root for the boxer from New Mexico?

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

I found this on Facebook posted by NY female boxer who knows Melissa Sonya Lamonakis Women's Boxing needs to stand up for what's right.......she didn't make the weight, wrong gloves, she wouldn't rewrap with team hernandez there, her house, her fans, her town??then they say they are out of gauze.....SCREW YOU TEAM HOLM...STAY THERE WHERE YOU WILL ONLY FITE....RABBITS DON'T SURVIVE IN NYC I will give to Chris Cozzone for actually not on fight news but New MExicoboxing.com actually putting Melissa's side of the story SALUTE TO CHRIS! Personally the HOlm V Cisneros change I find
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/INCREDIBLE

I WILL add that Sue FOx in quicklly posting a link to an interview with Melissa acted honorably and with distinction. Her comment on her facebook page about me calling the events incredible show that www.womenboxing.com is above bias.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5_iophKhU4 Melissa talks

[Dee Williams]

Hernandez's version of events is getting coverage, as is Fresquez's.

Kudos to Victoria Cisneros for stepping up at the shortest notice imaginable and still putting up a good fight. That took guts, REAL willingness to fight, and love for the sport.

[Dee Williams]

www.abqjournal.com/sports/live/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3893

By Rick Wright / Albuquerque Journal Columnist
Saturday, 05 December 2009 00:11

ISLETA PUEBLO - Talk, that cheapest of commodities, is that much cheaper this morning.

And it was Melissa Hernandez who ran like a rabbit.

After the trash-talking New Yorker walked out over a dispute about hand wraps, Albuquerque's Holly Holm scored a victory by a unanimous and lopsided - but entertaining and physical - decision over replacement fighter Victoria Cisneros Friday at Isleta Casino & Resort.

"You know what, everybody who bought a ticket got a better fight than they would have (if Hernandez hadn't dropped out)," Holm said.

The victory earned Holm the WIBA and NABF 140-pound titles as she improved her professional boxing record to 26-1-3 with seven knockouts. The game and aggressive Cisneros, an Albuquerquean who came to Isleta Friday expecting to watch Holm fight Hernandez for the WIBA 140-pound title, is 3-8-1 as a pro.

"Without Holly, I wouldn't have had this opportunity," Cisneros said of Holm, for whom she sometimes serves as a sparring partner. "She's a wonderful fighter."

Ryan Wissow, president of the WIBA, said a dispute erupted after no one from Hernandez's entourage was present in her dresssing room to watch the wrapping of Holm's hands.

Wissow said that was the Hernandez camp's responsibility, and labeled the New Yorker's actions inexcusable and unprofessional.

"All her people were out watching (the undercard) fights (instead of tending to business)," Wissow said. "I think she just chickened out."

During the buildup to the scheduled bout, Hernandez had relentlessly promoted herself while belittling Holm. Labeling the Albuquerquean "the rabbit," Hernandez came to Thursday's weigh-in with a string of carrots.

"It was all rubbish," Wissow said. "Then, she just took off."

Albuquerque's Lenny Fresquez, Holm's promoter and promoter of Friday's card, said the Holm camp offered to have the Albuquerque fighter's hands re-wrapped with a member of Hernandez's entourage present.

Fresquez said Hernandez's manager, whose name he didn't know, then demanded more money than the contracted $5,000 purse. Fresquez refused, he said, and Hernandez left the premises.

Cisneros had lost her last five decisions and had not won a fight since November 2004. But she arrived at Isleta in excellent shape, having trained for a fight that fell through.

She fought in gear lent her by Albuquerque's Jessica Sanchez, who earlier in the night had fought to a four-round draw with Amanda Crespin of Las Vegas, N.M.

Though the scorecards (99-91, 100-90, 99-91) didn't reflect as much, Cisneros, far bigger and stronger than Hernandez, gave Holm one of her most physically taxing fights. Often the aggressor, she occasionally managed to trap the nimble champion against the ropes. The third round, in particular, was a pure donnybrook.

Holm's advantage in skill and quickness, however, was evident throughout. Landing clean punches from both sides, the Albuquerque southpaw never lost control.

Afterward, the champion expressed awe for her surprise challenger.

"Anybody who's ever been in the ring knows how amazing that was," Holm said of Cisneros' performance.

[TD]

I watched Melissa's explanation of the events surrounding and leading up the BALK on her part in fighting Holm.

A couple of things stand out;

- fights must be conducted by the RULES...in this case I assume they are all know and are applying the New Mexico AC or Boxing Commission rules without deviation.

- certain aspects of the fight should be conducted by the contract signed by both fighters with the promoter...ie- you can spec gloves, the geographic origin of a judge or actual judge and or a ref among other contractual aspects.

- while I don't know the NMex specifics regarding weigh in, usually an overweight fighter makes a concession to the fighter that makes weight for the fight to continue. Not sure they have to or what the outcome is of that in New Mexico. BUT making weight is vitally important to a fair fight.

- alot of the circumstances around this fight point to promotion. Having a clear, fair and unbiased set of "aspects" to the fight is crucial. I am NOT saying they did or didn't. However, when you hear one party saying, "they told me they would do XYZ" then you really have a verbal set of agreements, not written and as you can see now, certainly NOT clear as to what was actually agreed to.

A couple of observations with handwrapping;
- you have to have an observer from the other fighter present. HAVE TO. Anything less can be suspect.
- you should/have to have a commission rep present to observe, smell, take a sample if necessary and sign off on the wrap. Not sure how N.Mex. handles this but in my opinion, HAVE TO HAVE THE COMM. REP PRESENT AND WATCHING should be the standard ( amazing but true, present but not watching the wrap go on the hands can happen.)

Kermit Cintron, the guy that got knocked out twice by Antonio Margarito, has said Margarito's punchs were harder and more piercing than any punch he has ever taken. Including shots CINTRON TOOK from guys that weight 20-30 pounds more than Margarito. NOW we know what may have happened; the hand wrap tape might have been juiced with illegal substances that made the wraps harder or stiffer. I say MAY because no rulings occured in these fights.

In the Margarito - Cotto fight, the hand wrap tape/gauze seemed to be steeped in certain chemical combinations that many boxing commissions wisely state, XYZ SUBSTANCES MAY NOT BE PRESENT inside/OUTSIDE the gloves, on the tape/gauze or the hands. Not sure how this applies to New Mexico's rules.

I think everyone agrees that Fresquez promotions knows what they are doing, that they are professionals and conduct themselves according to the laws, as specified by New Mexico.

But specifying aspects of the fight in contract form, in my opinion, is a much smarter and fairer way to conduct a fight. I am NOT saying they did or didn't do that. But when you listen to Melissa, you certainly feel that many things need to be reviewed and made known.

I am not nor would I ever question Melissa's guts, that is beyond reproach. She has stepped up and fought everyone. Her position on this seems to be fairness and playing by the rules. That can never be bad for the sport. Never.

The history of JOBBING one fighter by a promoter for the benefit of his/her fighter or letting his/her fighter's camp JOB the other fighter is extensive and it points to the fact just how flawed the sport is. Sort of like, "hey I am going to kick your ass...come to my dad's gym at 10am on saturday and we'll fight. My dad will do you right, don't worry about that".

But on the other side of the coin; once you agree to certain aspects of the fight, then you have to fight. Not saying this did or did not happen with Hernandez - Holm but there IS a large and pressing NEED for a REAL resolution to address the actual events/issues/circumstances and application of the rules that occurred in this event. This would be good for the sport and I think one that the New Mexico commission conducts and publishes as quickly as the events can be determined. ANYTHING LESS IS USELESS, IMO.

TD

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

I am looking for UFO reports over Iselta casino. Clearly a ship powered by www.economicexpert.com/a/Infinite:Improbability:Drive.htm was over the area when Victoria Cisneros stepped up.

[Dee Williams]

There's nothing improbable about another Albuquerque female fighter being in the audience for a card with three women's fights at Isleta, which is only a few miles South of Albuquerque. And as she has sparred with Holly, Victoria Cisneros probably had a good idea what she'd be getting into by volunteering to fight. She deserves credit for stepping up and making it happen IMO, then for putting on a good show too. There's no way she could have gone to that arena expecting to fight because no way anyone could have known for sure that Hernandez would balk/walk or however anyone here wants to describe what she (Hernandez) did/didn't do.

[TD]

CHRIS COZZONE PUBLISHED THIS:

"Melissa “Huracan” Hernandez is likely to face indefinite suspension, officials said following her actions Saturday night after pulling out last minute against Holly Holm at Isleta Casino & Resort.

According to Promoter Lenny Fresquez, who was able to get a hold of Hernandez after she’d returned to her hotel room, after 9 p.m., he was told that the situation “was nothing a little money wouldn’t fix.”

By that time, Fresquez had secured Victoria Cisneros, local Albuquerque jr. welterweight who was in the audience to watch the fight, to replace Hernandez. Rather than submit to Hernandez’s strong-arm tactics, Fresquez said, he went with Cisneros. Photo by Chris Cozzone: Hernandez after checking out the ring at 7 p.m."

WHY NOT QUOTE EXACTLY WHICH OFFICIALS SAID EXACTLY WHAT ABOUT THIS EVENT?

WHY USE THE BLANKET WORD "OFFICIALS" BUT ATTRIBUTE IT? WHICH ONES?

I hope there is an investigation as the facts need to be known. As of right now, an official on the women's boxing message board said that no official word about the holm-hernandez no-fight debacle has been officially released. Stay tuned, more useless messages to appear soon.

COME ON NEW MEXICO, RELEASE A REAL STATEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TD

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

Dee very rarely in my expirence do boxers have their fight gear really close and able to be picked up.

Will Victoria tell us the following:
When was she offered the fight what time witness not of the Mexico Commissionot of her camp to verify and not the pay roll or Fresquez?

Was what she fought in and her mouthpiece in her vehicle or did she go and get it?

Why was her outfit and mouthpiece in her car if it was at the venue?

This aspect of the story starts to many people stretching credulity beyond its breaking point.

[Dee Williams]

Dec 5, 2009 15:28:40 GMT -5 TD said:

A couple of observations with handwrapping;
- you have to have an observer from the other fighter present. HAVE TO. Anything less can be suspect.
- you should/have to have a commission rep present to observe, smell, take a sample if necessary and
sign off on the wrap. Not sure how N.Mex. handles this but in my opinion, HAVE TO HAVE THE COMM. REP
PRESENT AND WATCHING should be the standard ( amazing but true, present but not watching the wrap go
on the hands can happen.)

Dec 5, 2009 14:44:29 GMT -5 Dee Williams said:

Ryan Wissow, president of the WIBA, said a dispute erupted after no one from Hernandez's entourage was present in her dressing room to watch the wrapping of Holm's hands.

Wissow said that was the Hernandez camp's responsibility, and labeled the New Yorker's actions inexcusable and unprofessional.

"All her people were out watching (the undercard) fights (instead of tending to business)," Wissow said.

So the key question is why was nobody from Hernandez's camp available when Holm was being wrapped? Chris Cozzone

www.newmexicoboxing.com/fights2009/12-isleta.htm

has posted that

It was during the eight-round co-main event that the drama began backstage.

Unable to locate Hernandez or any member of her team (they were watching Esquibel-Warner), Holm’s corner proceeded to wrap their fighter’s hands without a representative of Team Hernandez present. When Hernandez’s team found out, they immediately demanded a re-wrapping.

According to several eyewitnesses, ranging from Isleta’s athletic commission officials to Promoter Lenny Fresquez and his staff, to representatives of Holm, Team Hernandez was refused at first, until Hernandez threatened to pull out.

At that point, they conceded – but Hernandez stormed off, regardless. For a half hour – while the co-main concluded and an intermission had been staged to keep the crowd from getting antsy – commissioners and promotional staff tried unsuccessfully to locate Hernandez.

Unsure whether she would return – thinking this was just another ploy for drama – a desperate, literal last-minute opponent search was conducted. Meanwhile, Hernandez was reached by phone by promoter Fresquez in her hotel room, at the other end of the casino.

“I told her to come back and we would re-wrap Holm’s hands,” said Fresquez. “She told me, ‘This is nothing a little money wouldn’t fix.’”

Refusing to be a victim of extortion, Fresquez told her to, ‘Forget it,’ for, by that time, a substitute had been secured.

Pulling a rabbit out of his hat, or, pardon this inexcusable number of bunny puns, Fresquez had a lucky rabbit’s foot in the form of Victoria Cisneros.

Unwon in nine bouts – since 2004 – Cisneros, 3-8-2, 0 kayos, was a mismatch on paper, but, sliding past a handful of rules ranging from pre-fight physicals, a pregnancy test and an official weighing in, the desperate match was made and the unlikely challenger went from spectator to main eventer, borrowing shoes, shorts and a mouthpiece to fight the top female fighter in the world.


If this is all correct. Hernandez was still at Isleta, in the hotel, when the offer to re-wrap Holm was made, and Hernandez's people were watching the previous (co-main) fight when Holm was originally wrapped. Did someone from the commission observe the original Holm wrap, and sign off on it? If so, why wasn't someone from Hernandez's camp there? Was Hernandez wapped, and was anyone from Holm's camp there for that?

[Dee Williams]

Dec 5, 2009 17:13:08 GMT -5 Esteban Erik Stipnieks said:

Was what she fought in and her mouthpiece in her vehicle or did she go and get it?

Why was her outfit and mouthpiece in her car if it was at the venue?

This aspect of the story starts to many people stretching credulity beyond its breaking point.

Just look at the photos from the card in Chris Cozzone's report. Cisneros fought wearing Sanchez's outfit, like the Journal reporter said.

[Dee Williams]

Dec 5, 2009 17:13:08 GMT -5 Esteban Erik Stipnieks said:

Will Victoria tell us the following:
When was she offered the fight what time witness not of the Mexico Commissionot of her camp to verify and not the pay roll or Fresquez?

In case the news hasn't reached Texas yet, Isleta Pueblo is in NEW Mexico which is part of the United States. And it's an Indian (i.e. native American) boxing commission (not the NEW Mexico commission) there anyway. Victoria is not a member of this Forum, but if you seriously believe she was offered the fight at a suspicious time, you' need some theory for why Fresquez could be so sure ahead of time that Hernandez would pull out of the fight that he had a substitute already arranged. It makes more sense to me that Victoria woiuld be at Isleta anyway (it's REALLY close to Albuquerque, NOT in Mexico) and that she agreed to take the fight with someone she'd already sparred with - to make a payday and to fight in front of a lot of people who who'd give her credit for it too because they're HER home crowd as well.

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

I think the narrative as posted by Cozzone and Sue Fox stretches credulity. There are too many happy coincidences along the way for it to be believed. Mary Ann Owen defriended me on face but when HOlly HOlm finally relented....had already obstructed the warm up of Melissa I was on facebook last night. The coincidence sorry this where I part company is in my opinion incredible. I think Lenny and Team Holm would show there nothing fishing by welcoming an the appropriate law enforcement authority to investigate for fraud.

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

If Melissa is suspended indefinetly I would to see all boxers from New Mexico suspended indefinetly by all other states.

[fightfan]

I saw Melissa on "Peoples Court" once last year I believe. I had to do a double take. something about money I believe the
promoter won the case.

she isn't afraid to hold her ground, but if cooler heads had prevailed the wraps would have been cut, rewrapped. if it
was critical to Melissa I would have thought her manager would have been standing on top of the commissioner during wrap. more factors had to figure into her bolting.

I've seen Melissa on another fight poster, where negotiations broke down. her manager said last week that a bad contract was signed. what the heck was the swapping of the gloves all about, I saw reyes at the press conference video.

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

I kicked my editorial to Sue Fox about it. I talked to a boxing fan who has a hard time believing Cisneros just happened to be there. HOw many years have I covered boxing in the Austin San Antonio area? The Laura Serrano V Snodene fight but that happened within 24 hours samething with a male undercard bout on the Caples V Lord. It did not happen under 2 hours. There are a lot of boxing fans who find the the story hard to believe.

[Dee Williams]

Dec 5, 2009 19:35:56 GMT -5 fightfan said:

I saw Melissa on "Peoples Court" once last year I believe. I had to do a double take. something about money I believe the
promoter won the case.

she isn't afraid to hold her ground, but if cooler heads had prevailed the wraps would have been cut, rewrapped. if it
was critical to Melissa I would have thought her manager would have been standing on top of the commissioner during wrap. more factors had to figure into her bolting.

I've seen Melissa on another fight poster, where negotiations broke down. her manager said last week that a bad contract was signed. what the heck was the swapping of the gloves all about, I saw reyes at the press conference video.

When Melissa signed with Brian Cohen's Bionic Bull Management it was stated by Mr.Cohen

www.womenboxing.com/NEWS2009/news110709hernandez.htm

that she had "signed a bad contract" for the fight with Holm.

[Jason Ozuma]

Dec 5, 2009 20:22:01 GMT -5 Dee Williams said:

Dec 5, 2009 19:35:56 GMT -5 fightfan said:

I saw Melissa on "Peoples Court" once last year I believe. I had to do a double take. something about money I believe the
promoter won the case.

she isn't afraid to hold her ground, but if cooler heads had prevailed the wraps would have been cut, rewrapped. if it
was critical to Melissa I would have thought her manager would have been standing on top of the commissioner during wrap. more factors had to figure into her bolting.

I've seen Melissa on another fight poster, where negotiations broke down. her manager said last week that a bad contract was signed. what the heck was the swapping of the gloves all about, I saw reyes at the press conference video.

When Melissa signed with Brian Cohen's Bionic Bull Management it was stated by Mr.Cohen

www.womenboxing.com/NEWS2009/news110709hernandez.htm

that she had "signed a bad contract" for the fight with Holm.

Well it seems like it was Melissa fault for signing the bad contract
But it also proves how bad Fresquez Productions really is if they can job a fighter there more likely to do that to others.

This is why i believe every boxer should have a good lawyer, hopefully Melissa and bull management can get some rights to investigate this fight

[Jason Ozuma]

Dec 5, 2009 19:32:26 GMT -5 Esteban Erik Stipnieks said:

If Melissa is suspended indefinetly I would to see all boxers from New Mexico suspended indefinetly by all other states.

Don't be ridiculous esteban, even though i hate what is happening to Melissa. This is her fault just as it is Lenny's
The boxing world has crooks and if you aren't careful you will be robbed blindfold, i mean we see this all the time.
that is why you got to cover yourself with lawyers, managers, promoters and people who want the REAL best for you but in a world were every body want to make millions before dollars, champions fall like papers in a sea of rocks and somebody is going to sink and fall fast and badly.

[Dee Williams]

Dec 5, 2009 19:32:26 GMT -5 Esteban Erik Stipnieks said:

If Melissa is suspended indefinetly I would to see all boxers from New Mexico suspended indefinetly by all other states.

Cozzone has not identified what officialdom he was referring to, but given the context I think it would have to be the Isleta boxing commission. FWIW that is NOT the New Mexico commission. the pueblos in NM are allowed to have their own, independent, commissions.

[Jason Ozuma]

Dec 5, 2009 18:50:36 GMT -5 Esteban Erik Stipnieks said:

I think the narrative as posted by Cozzone and Sue Fox stretches credulity. There are too many happy coincidences along the way for it to be believed. Mary Ann Owen defriended me on face but when HOlly HOlm finally relented....had already obstructed the warm up of Melissa I was on facebook last night. The coincidence sorry this where I part company is in my opinion incredible. I think Lenny and Team Holm would show there nothing fishing by welcoming an the appropriate law enforcement authority to investigate for fraud.

I agree with this Esteban, Lenny as well as Melissa and her management also the commission or and sactioning body needs an investigation. If there isn't an investigation this will be as a scar for NM's boxing scene and Lenny as well as his star Holm and Melissa. An investigation would be good but make sure it comes from out of state and not from in state. ;D

[Jason Ozuma]

Dec 5, 2009 14:44:29 GMT -5 Dee Williams said:

www.abqjournal.com/sports/live/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3893

By Rick Wright / Albuquerque Journal Columnist
Saturday, 05 December 2009 00:11



The victory earned Holm the WIBA and NABF 140-pound titles as she improved her professional boxing record to 26-1-3 with seven knockouts. The game and aggressive Cisneros, an Albuquerquean who came to Isleta Friday expecting to watch Holm fight Hernandez for the WIBA 140-pound title, is 3-8-1 as a pro.

"Without Holly, I wouldn't have had this opportunity," Cisneros said of Holm, for whom she sometimes serves as a sparring partner. "She's a wonderful fighter."

Ryan Wissow, president of the WIBA, said a dispute erupted after no one from Hernandez's entourage was present in her dresssing room to watch the wrapping of Holm's hands.

Wissow said that was the Hernandez camp's responsibility, and labeled the New Yorker's actions inexcusable and unprofessional.

"All her people were out watching (the undercard) fights (instead of tending to business)," Wissow said. "I think she just chickened out."

During the buildup to the scheduled bout, Hernandez had relentlessly promoted herself while belittling Holm. Labeling the Albuquerquean "the rabbit," Hernandez came to Thursday's weigh-in with a string of carrots.

"It was all rubbish," Wissow said. "Then, she just took off."

Albuquerque's Lenny Fresquez, Holm's promoter and promoter of Friday's card, said the Holm camp offered to have the Albuquerque fighter's hands re-wrapped with a member of Hernandez's entourage present.

Fresquez said Hernandez's manager, whose name he didn't know, then demanded more money than the contracted $5,000 purse. Fresquez refused, he said, and Hernandez left the premises.

Cisneros had lost her last five decisions and had not won a fight since November 2004. But she arrived at Isleta in excellent shape, having trained for a fight that fell through.

She fought in gear lent her by Albuquerque's Jessica Sanchez, who earlier in the night had fought to a four-round draw with Amanda Crespin of Las Vegas, N.M.

WIBA causes controversy again
Ryan said IFBA was a joke but Ryan is a bigger joke
I felt sad for him because everyone and their grandma was putting these new title commisions for women's boxing but if this is how Ryan runs its no suprise that he will run out of business soon just like Blockbuster videos. However Ryan has women boxers on all his pages from twitter, facebook and even myspace but that bloody twit won't even care about these boxers. If Ryan was truly serious about womens boxing, he would have investigated what Melissa had stated instead of drooling over the money that was just put in now green bank account. These women boxers need to get away from that creep before they end up getting robbed.

Second I wouldn't trust what an idiot from Fightnews or newmexicoboxing.com or Albuquerque journalist say especially about NM. There all on the payroll for the Lenny any way and trusting them is as bad as trusting a politican. They make lies and they spread lies and who knows what lies in their beds besides guilt but i don't guilt is in some of their beds..

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

Ok has there been any other time in history when a boxer showed up to an event as a spectator and wound up on the MAIN EVENT. When Snodene stepped to fight Laura Serrano it was made a 4 rounder! The set up time at the very least was 18 hours. This is how boxing is committing suicide. I gave Eddie Goldman my full editorial.

[Dee Williams]

Dec 5, 2009 21:25:22 GMT -5 Esteban Erik Stipnieks said:

Ok has there been any other time in history when a boxer showed up to an event as a spectator and wound up on the MAIN EVENT. When Snodene stepped to fight Laura Serrano it was made a 4 rounder! The set up time at the very least was 18 hours. This is how boxing is committing suicide. I gave Eddie Goldman my full editorial.

No but you have to realize Albuquerque is a small market and Isleta is a small commission. It's not like this happened in NYC or Vegas. Probably nobody else but Isleta would have let Victoria Cisneros into the ring without medicals or weighing in, agreeing to the fight just 20 minutes before she actually fought (as I have now heard, it must have been during the intermission they called). It's off-scale gutsy and that's why I am giving Victoria Cisneros a shout-out for stepping up when it was offered to her.

[TD]

WOW, this gets even MORE "fishy". The Pueblo's Commission ( the casino) is the ruling authority for this fight??!?! Don't they have to agree to abide by NMexico's laws?

IF YES, don't they have to provide some reasonable diligence for who a reasonable replacement was? No pregnancy test? No weigh in? No matchmaker? Incorrect trunks? And they ran it like it was a ligit fight? What does a judge think watching a fighter wearing the same trunks/name on them that the judge might have saw in an earlier fight?

Man alive its sounds like a cowboy show on the reservation. No offense to native americans, but, dam, this is a fight. With people's lives on the line. You gotta run a legit show. No questions or doubts are acceptable. Somebody could get killed.

A couple of important points to consider:

1. Why wrap or allow a fighter's hands to be wrapped WITHOUT the opposing camp's rep present? THIS IS TOTAL BS!

2. When the opposing camp finds out their opponent has "already wrapped up", why would you NOT agree IMMEDIATELY to a re-wrap? Why wait for the opposing fighter to walk away to THEN agree to a re-wrap? THIS IS TOTAL BS!

3. If any Casino values the consumers business, its incumbant upon them to actually be FAIR. If they were the presiding authority on this fight, they had the responsibility to conduct themselves and all aspects of the fight ABOVE reproach. That means BY THE FRICKIN BOOK. Not by some whim or some vague idea of what FAIR is, rather by the FRICKIN BOOK. Did they do that?

4. You just can advertise a fight between A and B and then freely substitute C for B. That ain't kosher. Even in the spirit of "the show must go on". But when you do that, don't you think its in all the fighter's interest to FOLLOW PROTOCOL and / or THE RULES OF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO?

5. Finally, fighters who sign contracts ONLY have leverage over a promoter when they have been WRONGED. IE- their opponent can't make weight...the fighter who did make weight has plenty of leverage and that means MORE MONEY. That is almost universally accepted. MOST fighter's will allow their opponent a few hours in the sauna in order to make weight. BUT some things are inexcusable and NOT acceptable. This situation dictates an immediate re-wrap while the Hernandez camp got to witness that re-wrap. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO WRAP A FIGHTER WITHOUT THE OPPONENT'S CAMP PRESENT. NONE. NO EXCEPTIONS. NONE. ANYTHING LESS IS NOT PROFESSIONAL, NOT SAFE AND SHOULD NEVER OCCUR.

TD

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

I gave Sue Fox my editorial I wonder if she will run it.

[Dee Williams]

Dec 5, 2009 21:55:30 GMT -5 TD said:

The Pueblo's Commission ( the casino) is the ruling authority for this fight??!?! Don't they have to agree to abide by NMexico's laws?

I'm not from New Mexico but we've had this discussion several times before in this Forum, and here's what I remember from then. Possibly someone who is from New Mexico could tell us whether any of this has changed recently. The state has an athletic commission that regulates boxing in all locations in the state that are NOT on the native American lands. I believe the pueblos are different in that they can have their own boxing commissions independently of the state's athletic commission (but can choose to pay licensing fees to the state for the privilege of being regulated by the state). I think that Isleta used to be one of the independents, because it was discussed before in this Forum that Holm's fights are regulated by the NM Athletic commission when they take place in the city of Albuquerque itself, but not when they are at the Isleta casino.

If you look at the listing of boxing commissions in the ABC, you will see several native American commissions listed separately from their states, and in places where native Americans have casinos. It's not just NM. While state LAWS would apply to enforcing of provisions that are spelled out explicitly in contracts in the state, I can see that if a contract said that some procedures governing the fight would be those of a pueblo boxing commission, then only the pueblo's own REGULATIONS might apply to those procedures.

With Cisneros, I figure that both she and the commission must have waived just about everything in the book to get her in the ring at such short notice. That may have been easier to do on a pueblo with a local fighter who was known to the commissioners, and vice versa. Unsafe? It would be if she'd walked in off the street unknown to the commission, but in this case I bet she (Cisneros) was known to them as a pro boxer who was licensed in NM. Wrong? Not under the circumstances of a sold out arena and adult consent of a licensed pro boxer being involved, IMO. This was a great opportunity for Cisneros to show her abilities off to a big crowd for ten rounds and she was clearly glad to have it and did pretty well with it. Kudos to her for going for it when offered the chance.

Cowboys? No, TD. The folks who are in charge of these pueblo commissions are the "Indians", who were there for several thousand years before the cowboys. It was their country before we took it.

Should there be a rule in every commission about observing the opponent's wrap? Sure there should - and it sounds like there was an expectation of that here, but a key question is for me is - WHY weren't Hernandez people present when Holm was preparing to wrap? Were they taken by surprise if Holm was wrapped early, or were they given a time and then failed to show? Did the pueblo commission require only that its supervisor be there, leaving it up to the fighters' teams to be there as well? Those are details that matter, and the only place we have heard anything about them from anyone outside NM so far was in what Ryan Wissow told the newspaper. Maybe he can tell us more next time he logs in here.