National Commission Worst Thing for Boxing

[Julie Landsdown]

To quote Bobby Dobbs from another thread, "A national commission is the worst thing for this sport."

How can that be? Boxing is currently the only major professional sport in the United States that is not governed by a central body, league, or association. Additionally, wouldn't a national commission with enforcement powers be the only way to curb unethical business practices that are pervasive in boxing?

[Bobby Dobbs]

I am glad you asked. First you are right that Boxing has no central authority. But no sport other than boxing is regulated by the government. The role of government is not to regulate sports. The government generally messes up everything it touches and boxing is no different. Bureacrats with no boxing knowledge get appointed to oversee the sport and make decisions based on politics instead of what is right and wrong.

I believe in the the divine right of all free men (and women) to choose their own destiny. I do not think the government has a right to tell me or anyone else that I cannot box because they dont think it's good for me.

Philosopher John Stuart Mill, in his treatise “On Liberty,” said it best:


"That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others.

His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant.

He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinions of others, to do so would be wise, or even right.

These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him, or persuading him, or entreating him, but not for compelling him, or visiting him with any evil, in case he do otherwise."

I have written extensively about this topic on other forums. The more the government regulates the more the sport is crushed by the rules and exspenses added.

Bobby Dobbs

[Stacy 'Goodnight' Goodson]

Julie

Well since you basically have no idea what you
are talking about, let me clear up a few things
for you. The National Commission is set up
by Arizona Senator John McCain to fix the
Crooked world of professional boxing. And if
his laws were set to shut down Hot Check writing
promoters from doing shows then ol Goodnight
would be in the head of the line to cheer his
Bureaucrat ass on. But John McCain's ABC
and National Commission twisted Idea's
are made up of rules only to help maybe less
than 1% of active fighters in the USA today.
And the people that he wants to run this
Nazi Party of Boxing are Appointed officials
that know even less about the real world of
boxing than his wanna be boxing fan ass does.
If we (The Boxing People) Could vote on who
regulated it and what rules they were regulating
then count me in.But they don't .The National
commission will just be the final nails in the coffin
that John McCain ABS has already started.So
get your facts strait before you start hollering
about a national commission or the end of
boxing like it should really be named !
Freedom to box is still a right don't
be part of making that change ,like were
some states that right is already gone !

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

We need a natonal commission but if McCain's plan was flawed yeah. Lets face it I have seen Yvoonne Caples get robbed I have been asked not to publicize some information given to me by a trainer about an event I covered.

There needs to be some national body to get people King out of the way and keep local contests on the up and up.

[Julie Landsdown]

Stacey – I love you too! The argument that state commissions is enough are flawed. Consider when Tyson fought Lennox in 2002. The ABC (the loosely organized commission under which state commissions operate) told its members not to issue Tyson a boxing license to punish his violent and criminal conduct outside the ring. Nevada, Texas, Colorado, West Virginia, and Georgia all refused the license but as you know (cause you are the expert), Tennessee didn’t. A national commission could have prevented that. Additionally, state commissioners are often appointed based on political affiliation not boxing knowledge. A national commission as sponsored by McCain would force qualified individuals in the entire sport of boxing to be appointed and no more than 3 members of the same party to belong to the commission at the same time.

Bobby- Alternative argument on policy reasons for governmental regulation of sports. First, if rankings are being bought, judges are being bribed, or matches are being fixed, a legitimate argument can then be made that in those instances, consumers are being fraudulently deceived. I’m thinking of the lawsuit brought by PPV consumers after Tyson bit off Holyfield’s ear. Second, a national commission would protect fighters in fights where the public isn’t analyzing the match. Aren’t mismatches something that we all complain about in women’s boxing all the time? Wouldn’t stopping the mismatches help strengthen the sport? Thirdly, I think a national commission would help legitimize the rankings. The proposal would require the ranking organizations to have a clear process on title fights and rankings. That would eliminate the bribing and corruption and lack of legitimacy in boxing as a whole but it would most definitely improve women’s boxing. I am thinking of the former IBF head Bob Lee.

[jr]

julie said:

Stacey – I love you too! The argument that state commissions is enough are flawed. Consider when Tyson fought Lennox in 2002. The ABC (the loosely organized commission under which state commissions operate) told its members not to issue Tyson a boxing license to punish his violent and criminal conduct outside the ring. Nevada, Texas, Colorado, West Virginia, and Georgia all refused the license but as you know (cause you are the expert), Tennessee didn’t. A national commission could have prevented that. Additionally, state commissioners are often appointed based on political affiliation not boxing knowledge. A national commission as sponsored by McCain would force qualified individuals in the entire sport of boxing to be appointed and no more than 3 members of the same party to belong to the commission at the same time.

Bobby- Alternative argument on policy reasons for governmental regulation of sports. First, if rankings are being bought, judges are being bribed, or matches are being fixed, a legitimate argument can then be made that in those instances, consumers are being fraudulently deceived. I’m thinking of the lawsuit brought by PPV consumers after Tyson bit off Holyfield’s ear. Second, a national commission would protect fighters in fights where the public isn’t analyzing the match. Aren’t mismatches something that we all complain about in women’s boxing all the time? Wouldn’t stopping the mismatches help strengthen the sport? Thirdly, I think a national commission would help legitimize the rankings. The proposal would require the ranking organizations to have a clear process on title fights and rankings. That would eliminate the bribing and corruption and lack of legitimacy in boxing as a whole but it would most definitely improve women’s boxing. I am thinking of the former IBF head Bob Lee.

Many consider the ABC to be ineffective and some, corrupt.

The national commission sponsored by Senator McCain was primarily concerned with the health and physical well-being of the fighters. While honorable and necessary, a national commission would need to address much more such as fight rules, medical exams, the use of performance-enhancing drugs, and rules for promoters and managers to follow.

The venues on Native American lands are in many cases exempt from state commission control because the properties are self-governed. A national commission would also need to address this issue as well.

[Bobby Dobbs]

julie said:

Stacey – I love you too! The argument that state commissions is enough are flawed. Consider when Tyson fought Lennox in 2002. The ABC (the loosely organized commission under which state commissions operate) told its members not to issue Tyson a boxing license to punish his violent and criminal conduct outside the ring. Nevada, Texas, Colorado, West Virginia, and Georgia all refused the license but as you know (cause you are the expert), Tennessee didn’t. A national commission could have prevented that. Additionally, state commissioners are often appointed based on political affiliation not boxing knowledge. A national commission as sponsored by McCain would force qualified individuals in the entire sport of boxing to be appointed and no more than 3 members of the same party to belong to the commission at the same time.

Bobby- Alternative argument on policy reasons for governmental regulation of sports. First, if rankings are being bought, judges are being bribed, or matches are being fixed, a legitimate argument can then be made that in those instances, consumers are being fraudulently deceived. I’m thinking of the lawsuit brought by PPV consumers after Tyson bit off Holyfield’s ear. Second, a national commission would protect fighters in fights where the public isn’t analyzing the match. Aren’t mismatches something that we all complain about in women’s boxing all the time? Wouldn’t stopping the mismatches help strengthen the sport? Thirdly, I think a national commission would help legitimize the rankings. The proposal would require the ranking organizations to have a clear process on title fights and rankings. That would eliminate the bribing and corruption and lack of legitimacy in boxing as a whole but it would most definitely improve women’s boxing. I am thinking of the former IBF head Bob Lee.

I disagree with nearly every single point you made. I am glad Tennessee licensed Mike Tyson. I think that fight was good for boxing and there was no valid reason not to license after he served his Nevada suspension.

The national commission would not eliminate any of the problems you said except as a by-product. Suddenly there would be far less shows and therefore far less problems. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater if you will. Mismatches are a part of boxing like they are a part of every single sport. The alternative is that usually someone won't get to fight because they couldnt get anyone else.

The ratings are a subjective list made by independent entitys i.e. sanctioning organizations. So what if you dont agree with them? They have a right to rate whoever they want , whatever they want. If you dont like them, boycott their belts.

The government screws up everything it touches. Look at what a great job it has done with health care or Katrina. Stop looking for big brother to solve your problems. The bottom line is that if you dont like something that happens in boxing, you dont have to pay for it. The only laws pertaning to boxing should be in guaranteeing a fighter gets paid and that no fraud is taking place.

Bobby Dobbs

[Stacy 'Goodnight' Goodson]

Julie Julie Julie

You are wrong, And when if the National Commission happens BOXING IS OVER !

From the bottom up its dead !

[Stacy 'Goodnight' Goodson]

The ABC meetings are ,state funded trips for appointed officials with no

prier knowledge of the sport before they were opponent, to go to change

the face of the sport every year to make it seem they are doing there job.

But in reality , the state is funding these guy to have a meeting or 2

and participate in Drinking , gambling and fornicating all paid

for by tax payers dollars ! And remeber I make no such comment

with out proff ,,,,,,, and yes I have pictures to show the little wife

at home !

[Julie Landsdown]

well i can agree to disagree. As it is, Stacy, the majority of the House of Rep. agrees with you and Bobby while the majority of the Senate would agree with me.

[Julie Landsdown]

J.R. - A recenly proposed Senate amendment would maybe address your concern:

"Professional Boxing Amendments Act of 2005 - (Sec. 3) Amends the Professional Boxing Safety Act of 1996 to: (1) authorize a tribal organization to establish a boxing commission to regulate professional boxing matches held on Indian land; and (2) provide that its provisions shall apply to professional boxing matches held on tribal lands to the same extent and in the same way as they apply to such matches held in any State. Requires health and safety standards and licensing requirements for matches to be at least as restrictive as: (1) standards and requirements in the State in which the Indian land is located; or (2) the guidelines established by the United States Boxing Commission (USBC) (established in this Act) ."

[Dee Hamaguchi]

Julie,

Perhaps you introduced yourself elsewhere on this board, but I missed it. Seeing that you have such strong opinions on this issue, I was wondering if:

1) you compete/d in any sport at a national or international level

2) you are actively involved in women's pro boxing as an athlete, trainer, manager or promoter.

No offense intended. Just trying to clarify.

Dee H

[Julie Landsdown]

Dee-

No problem, I don't think I ever did introduce myself. I am working with Leatitia Robinson as an advisor. Currently, my primary responsibility is scheduling of fights. I have competed at the collegiate level and internationally in softball. I was a pitcher.

Nice to meet you.

[Stacy 'Goodnight' Goodson]

Yea ,Women fighter's are getting yanked off cards anyway because promoters don't wanna
add the extra exspence , add another $25,000.00 to a card for more unwanted medicals ,and more bull sh*t regulations, see how many women boxing matches are going on then !It will gp from few to 0 fast !

[Bobby Dobbs]

julie said:

J.R. - A recenly proposed Senate amendment would maybe address your concern:

"Professional Boxing Amendments Act of 2005 - (Sec. 3) Amends the Professional Boxing Safety Act of 1996 to: (1) authorize a tribal organization to establish a boxing commission to regulate professional boxing matches held on Indian land; and (2) provide that its provisions shall apply to professional boxing matches held on tribal lands to the same extent and in the same way as they apply to such matches held in any State. Requires health and safety standards and licensing requirements for matches to be at least as restrictive as: (1) standards and requirements in the State in which the Indian land is located; or (2) the guidelines established by the United States Boxing Commission (USBC) (established in this Act) ."

Indian Tribal Commissions are generally stricter than state commissions anyway.

[Don "Moose" Lewis]

as the head of 4 sanctioning bodies-2 men and 2 women-i hve gone back and forth regarding the national boxing commission. i have attended one ABC convention and will be in philly on the 5th for the 2nd one. at this point, i see only a couple of people qualified to head the commission and i see no way to fund it. my relationship has grown with many state commissions and i see them working more closely together now than ever and i dont see the need to get a national commission. i am currently in a situation with a promoter now that needs to be handled and the georgia commission and the commission where the fight occurred is working things out on both my behalf and the boxer involved. i could not be more pleased with the cooperation of all. i believe that many commissions will streamline their respective state laws to bel more like a new york for instance. i am proposing that fees be raised slightly for all participants to help fund the boxing commissions so their can be better people involved. we are even willing to pay a license fee each year to help the cause. we also propose that all monies be lodged with the commisision including purses, sparring fees, sanction fees, belt fees, etc. and be released to all parties after the fights by the commission. i also believe when a boxer has been ko's and tko'd that their should be a thorough physical given by the commission before the boxer gets back in the ring. i have seen the long term damage of boxing in a seminar by Dr. Margaret Goodman-it aint pretty. i have talked to boxers like holyfield and meldrick taylor-what a shame. and for the record, while there are good times at the conventions by all, much business is conducted and spirited debate abounds. you are welcome to attend and see for yourself.

[Bobby Dobbs]

moose said:

as the head of 4 sanctioning bodies-2 men and 2 women-i hve gone back and forth regarding the national boxing commission. i have attended one ABC convention and will be in philly on the 5th for the 2nd one. at this point, i see only a couple of people qualified to head the commission and i see no way to fund it. my relationship has grown with many state commissions and i see them working more closely together now than ever and i dont see the need to get a national commission. i am currently in a situation with a promoter now that needs to be handled and the georgia commission and the commission where the fight occurred is working things out on both my behalf and the boxer involved. i could not be more pleased with the cooperation of all. i believe that many commissions will streamline their respective state laws to bel more like a new york for instance. i am proposing that fees be raised slightly for all participants to help fund the boxing commissions so their can be better people involved. we are even willing to pay a license fee each year to help the cause. we also propose that all monies be lodged with the commisision including purses, sparring fees, sanction fees, belt fees, etc. and be released to all parties after the fights by the commission. i also believe when a boxer has been ko's and tko'd that their should be a thorough physical given by the commission before the boxer gets back in the ring. i have seen the long term damage of boxing in a seminar by Dr. Margaret Goodman-it aint pretty. i have talked to boxers like holyfield and meldrick taylor-what a shame. and for the record, while there are good times at the conventions by all, much business is conducted and spirited debate abounds. you are welcome to attend and see for yourself.

Moose,

Please stick to your internet porn sites and prostitution business and leave the boxing to us. The fact your are against a national commission is the first compelling arguement FOR one that I have ever heard.

Bobby Dobbs

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

First of all there needs to be a national commission ONLY IN TEXAS can a 30 day suspension without warning become indefinate. Only in Texas can a fighter come from Vegas get robbed so badly it is not funny and the commission to the day insist it was on the up and up.

Some promoters need to be in jail. Some promoters need to be watched. Some referrees do not need to be in the sport and some promoters need to be sued.

Lets face it when a boxer crosses state lines interstate commerce is occuring. When Ali broke her contract with Ann thrice there should have been a lawsuit or fees involved.

Just some thoughts!

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

Oh yes I wonder how the state boxing commission can look at the timing of the my boxing pics done on a MANUAL FOCUS CAMERA and consider my skills impaired.

[TD]

National Boxing Commission is the last resort and the ONLY way to save boxing. Hell, it sure ain't working now. Most states that regulate a few fights are not capable of conducting the same regulations as states that have many fights. So you get fixs, shams,questionable fights, irregular rules from state to state. Boxing is interstate commerce the minute it goes on TV or the net or cable. And that is congress's domain.

The nim-norts that dislike the FED gov.'s ability, look at Al Zaquari, had a one dropped on his head. And who went to the moon? Not the state of Oklahoma, the USA did.

Look, boxing as is, is irregular, stacked in favor of the local promoter with a handful of C-notes to pay his way to the outcome he likes. Camon, judging is out of whack much of the time. MEDICAL screening is irregular from state to state. And rankings are a rig job to allow mismatches to proceed for the promoter's benefit.

Fighters will always fight, but will they get paid for it? The FEDs insure they will. And if not, so what, cuz it sucks as it is. This will weed out the sham promoters who will instantly hide. The good promoters will have to step up and that means the media will get a better product and the fans will get real fights, not shams set up the pad a record or make a bet or insure the promoter's fighter builds a local following based on flimsey cards.

TD

[Don "Moose" Lewis]

why doesnt everyone spend the money to go to philly and speak theri mind in person to ALL the commissions-i certainly do and plan to do it again in philly. it is easy to complain on the net-why not pony up and speak to the source about bad decisions and pusrses and suspensions-it is the best time to be heard and get things off your chest-and take your shots at me in person

[Stacy 'Goodnight' Goodson]

Its time to talk about freedom !

[Rick Scharmberg]

goodnight said:

Julie

Well since you basically have no idea what you
are talking about, let me clear up a few things
for you. The National Commission is set up
by Arizona Senator John McCain to fix the
Crooked world of professional boxing. And if
his laws were set to shut down Hot Check writing
promoters from doing shows then ol Goodnight
would be in the head of the line to cheer his
Bureaucrat ass on. But John McCain's ABC
and National Commission twisted Idea's
are made up of rules only to help maybe less
than 1% of active fighters in the USA today.
And the people that he wants to run this
Nazi Party of Boxing are Appointed officials
that know even less about the real world of
boxing than his wanna be boxing fan ass does.
If we (The Boxing People) Could vote on who
regulated it and what rules they were regulating
then count me in.But they don't .The National
commission will just be the final nails in the coffin
that John McCain ABS has already started.So
get your facts strait before you start hollering
about a national commission or the end of
boxing like it should really be named !
Freedom to box is still a right don't
be part of making that change ,like were
some states that right is already gone !

Except for his first sentence, I agree with Stacy. When the government can enforce the Muhammad Ali rule I'll start to be a believer. case in point: Tomasz Adamek came from nowhere to defeat Paul Briggs in an exciting fight, and then stopped Tomas Ulrich with one punch in Germany in his mandatory. Now he is being pressured by the WBC (we know which promoter this is, and its not WBArum) to defend his title. Adamek was offered to fight Glen Johnson for close to a million (deservedly) on Showtime, only to be offered Briggs again for 100k by his own promoter! There is a lawsuit pending, and we can we can expect Adamek, a deserving champion, to be stripped of his hard earned title. I also heard that this same promoter made more than the fighter did against Ulrich. By not disclosing the purse structure, it is a direct violation of the Ali bill. Why is the "government" not stepping in? No, what we need are a team of people like Marc Ratner (Midwest), Greg Sirb (East Coast), and possibly Sue Fox (West Coast) to oversee the sport. I'll say this, the sumya anani and Terri blair purse issue would have never happened in PA. Sirb would have handed them an envelope of cash about 15 minutes after the bout. If the money isn't there ahead of time, the fight don't happen. Julie, thanks for getting me worked up! j/k

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

Amen Amen! The Blair Ananai fight was interstate commerce under the pervew of the feds.

[Stacy 'Goodnight' Goodson]

goodnight said:

Its time to talk about freedom !

What we need to go is let them start a national commission up, Let them appoint and uninformed son of b*tch to run it like they do every thing else in boxing , Then a couple fighters that got suspended for some bull sh*t over regulations in the past , Break in to his tax payer paid office ,and Gut him like a pig , and then tie a note around his neck that says , No more appointed officials , and we will not have to do this again ,Let active fighters , trainers , managers and promoters Vote on the rules and who regulates this sport , You know that's the American way ! That will be the National commission we can all love
I know, I know a little extreme . But the next some bully wants
to act like he is truth and the light , He just might take that prison gaurd job they offered him first
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Freedom~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





The American Clubfighter
Stacy"GOODNIGHT"Goodson
.... www.SlugOut.com ......
www.myspace.com/slugoutboxing

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

I will not make any comments about the intellect of "Freedom crowd" their posts speak rather eloquently for the complete and total lack of it and their lack of knowledge about the Constitution of the United States of America.

[Stacy 'Goodnight' Goodson]

Well it sounds like your knowledge of the constitution is about the same as boxing........

Why dont you go read a book like (Chicken soup for the Soul) or some sh*t like that

or a least talk about a topic you know something about ! And that sure in the hell aint

boxing !

If you can't help my sport than keep your silly a*s out of it !



Mr.Boxing (Goodnight)
www.SlugOut.com

[Esteban Erik Stipnieks]

Surely you do not think that boxing was helped by the match you saw in Austin! You mean to tell me when a robbery occurs on TV that boxing is helped by it! YOu mean to say boxing is benifitted by what happened in Kentucky recently?You mean to say that when a nobody is pulled up from Mexico to fight a local name boxing gains from it. When Karrie Frye got severely injured due to bad reffing that was good for boxing? What happened to Dallam was good for boxing?

The existing plan for a federal commission was flawed but when Ali broke the contract with Suzy Taylor that was an issue between states hence a federal issue. I can think of a commission working both ways Lisa Holewyne's antics with her Martin fight would have been sunk by a national commission.

There needs to be a national commission to prevent what we both have seen and both known about the present system is killing boxing.