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Post by TD on Dec 10, 2011 14:20:21 GMT -5
Esteban--- no doubt that WBAN is now "owned" but NOT operated by other entities. Sue could NOT even say WHO she presented the WBAN BELT to " the new winner and champion Sophie Anne Mathis"...I think she said, " I attended the press conference, weigh-in, the fight card, presenting the WBAN World Welterweight title to the winner...." That's SHABBY "journalism", if its supposed to be that. Here's what Sue Fox ACTUALLY said about the fight rather than what TD, who never reads before he writes, THOUGHT she said: On this night, Holly Holm and Anne Sophie Mathis fought for the WBAN World Welterweight title. To the surprise of many, these two were in a war from the first round until the fight was stopped 1:38 in the seventh round.
After the fourth round had ended and seeing the continuous barrage of combinations and heavy leather thrown at each other, I remember commenting to Chris Cozzone of New Mexico Boxing, that this fight would never last 10 rounds.
I had no idea WHO was going down, but just seeing the high-pace of these two----I knew that one would not make it till the end.
Then in a shocker that is still fresh in my mind----Anne Sophie Mathis stunned Holm in the six round. Holm went down to the canvas, dazed, wobbly and at that time it appeared the fight was over.
But what was even more shocking was that Holm did not receive an eight count, and that the Ref apparently called the knockdown a "slip".
By then, not only myself, but people at ringside, and the crowd that I could hear by ear shot appeared to be bewildered by the chain of events.
Holm managed to weather the storm through the end of the sixth round, and to the dismay of others, besides myself, the fight continued and she came out for the seventh round.
It did not take long for Mathis to get the upper hand on the now-injured Holm, and 1:38 seconds of this round---the fight was over, and Holm was on the canvas, losing by KO.
[photo of Sue with Mathis and belt]
Sue TL Fox presents WBAN Welterweight Belt to Mathis. Dean Chance gave the IBA belt to Mathis. Photo: Steve Snowden
One thing I had never done in covering boxing was yell at something happening in the ring. But this night, just prior to Holm going down to the canvas, without realizing what I had done, I stood up--- looking at Holm hanging onto the rope, and yelled, "Can't you see she is hurt?"
[another photo of Sue with Mathis and WBAN belt]If TD could only find time to read before he SHOUTED, he'd be a less "shabby" writer himself. He's set on being the "Fox News" of this Forum - if he can't actually find facts he just makes them up. Yes he's good at inflammatory writing IN ALL UPPER CAPS but he's lousy at separating actual fact from his imagination and faulty memory, and at listening to anyone else. Sue Fox is not a pro journalist running a money-making "media operation", she is a former boxer and retired policewoman who's running WBAN on a shoestring mostly with volunteer help like mine. She is actually RAISING money for boxing causes like the Retired Boxers Foundation because she cares about the sport and knows first hand about the toll it takes on boxers. As a cancer survivor she knows about health issues, she's been through the mill up close and in person. Compared to a part-time conspiracy theorist, serial distorter, and sideline SHOUTER who gets to throw rocks at her for free for a few minutes a day spent on-line, I know who's "shabby". It's the lazy one who can't even be bothered to read what he's criticizing and just wants to complain about the WORK other people actually DO rather than doing any himself. Well Now Dee-- the quote I posted was taken right from WBAN. I did read the entire piece. My point IS, which you enjoy missing, GIVE THE NEW CHAMP, SOPHIE MATHIS, HER DUE AND ANNOUNCE HER HAME WHEN YOU CALL HER THE CHAMP OR REFER TO PUTTING THE BELT ON THE CHAMPION. << oh wow, caps, my gawd<< Does WBAN receive money from Lenny? Does WBAN want to be an independant voice for fairness in the sport? If so, then give coverage where coverage is due and outrage where outrage is due...not selectively. I thought it very disengenious to jump on a REF who was hand picked by the promoter, has ref'd many of Holly's fights and was obviously aware of Holly's style because he gave Holly what she wanted, a chance to get back in the fight. I think it was a bad call, but you have to respect the corner's call. Now, its the pro-Holly crowd that is crowing that its the ref's fault she took an extra beating. It is and it isn't. Holly should have been given an 8 count and a point(s) loss for being knocked down. Fair point to make. But she would have picked up 8 second of recovery time, instead she got about 3 seconds. Anyway, the point is, the world dominance fight gets a build up and then proper respect is NOT shown, IMO, to the New Champion, Sophie Mathis. Instead, its a circular firing squad of blame. I guess I should just ignore it, its just the way they roll.... TD
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 10, 2011 15:38:27 GMT -5
The part I quoted is from WBAN too. What part of "Sue TL Fox presents WBAN Welterweight Belt to Mathis. Dean Chance gave the IBA belt to Mathis. Photo: Steve Snowden" could TD not understand? Instead he launches into conspiracy theories about "other entities" controlling WBAN, like the card was at Area 51 not Route 66.
As for which tribal commission ran the fight, you tell me, Esteban. Route 66 is operated by Laguna, which does not have its own commission and has usually had NMAC, the state commission, supervise its events. So you tell me which tribal commission was involved this time.
As for speed, Sue posted the fight result right away then waited until she got home and could get the photos etc put together before she posted her followup. Google doesn't say who's "news organization", it uses the feeds it chooses. Sue's NOT a pro reporter, she had to use her own time and money to get to cover this fight as an independent, like any of you guys who are so eager to criticize her could do if you only got your acts together as much as she does. So she took longer than you liked but WBAN isn't CNN or ESPN, it's using volunteer and Sue's own resources. Just because it's high on google "news" feed doesn't change that. If you guys could do it so much better and faster, why not just go out and DO it? Put YOUR time and money where your mouths are and cover some big fights. Then you'll have a leg (or two) to stand on while you criticize Sue's speed and effort.
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Post by Esteban Erik Stipnieks on Dec 10, 2011 16:49:11 GMT -5
Dee I have managed even to pass on the Ronn Simm's Marine boxer death controversy other than to indirectly pass on information....that Michael Campbell will not stop. Personally I hate to admit but Campbell is right on his assesement of the tradgedy. I stick within my purview generally speaking of Au (Austin) Sa (San Antonio). I dug into Iowa because it directly involved a San Antonio fighter in a developing story you highlight what you do not know you call speculation speculation and as facts develop you make your case. When I got confirmation that ambulance was not there I mentioned it. I did withhold some facts at the request of one of the parties. Basic historian rules applied to journalism. I got confirmation on the doctor and the fact he did have a long discplinary history. In terms of speed I posted photos that well one boxer wished I had not from the lbcs within 24 hours and I took $15 from the trainer of that boxer. I am a good politician....I may take money but I try not be on the pay role. I know Celina Salazar was upset at what I said regarding her performance at Randys Ballroom but I am supremely proud of that work in sight. A simple comment of "I feel the fight was stopped late" Sue has far more resources than I do.
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Dec 10, 2011 17:49:15 GMT -5
Mathis - Mrdjenovich: Two Fighters to be Reckoned with by Sue Fox @ WBAN One of the BEST posts Sue has EVER put up on WBAN. Is anyone else excited about Mrdjenovich v Wallberg? ? If Sue maintains a credible amount of independence - and continues to be a strong voice for the women actually boxing in the ring, which she has always seemed to do - all will be fine.
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Post by Esteban Erik Stipnieks on Dec 10, 2011 17:59:36 GMT -5
Great job Sue
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 11, 2011 1:22:09 GMT -5
Funny how the clips of the fight are dissapprearing... There's actually nothing "funny" about it at all - French TV had arranged to delay showing the fight so they could run it later in the week. They wouldn't want to show a fight that had already been available on youtube for days. The two or three rounds that were posted on youtube ahead of the TV showing must have been unsanctioned posts - copyright or terms of use violations on Google always get taken down if the owner of the video finds out about them and complains WBAN's been told that there will be an official copy of the full fight video on youtube once the embargo for European TV is over, so just be patient. We'll all see the full fight eventually, after the TV people have had their chance to show it.
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Post by Jason Ozuma on Dec 12, 2011 16:08:43 GMT -5
Most recent poll results @ newmexicoboxing.com > poll is still active. WHAT SHOULD HOLLY HOLM DO NEXT? Fight MMA - retire from boxing > 7% Fight Cecilia Braekhus, Then Rematch Mathis > 9% Rematch Mathis ASAP > 18% Tune-Up, then rematch Mathis > 24% RETIRE > 42% I voted for retire. MMA is just too boring. You have a right to your opinion but I think your wrong, if Cecilia got her booty kicked by Mathis would you tell her to retire,Todd?? I think Holms needs to retire from MMA and focus on finishing boxing first by fighting Cecilia, Lamare will not give her a rematch in NM, then tune up and fight Melissa Hernandes then fight Mathis!! I give holm credit for standing her ground and pounding out with Mathis, she is the number 1 best female boxer as far as popularity and promoted female boxers goes, she has her faults, I am not a fan of her myself but i dont kick a man not even a woman when they are down!
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Ki
New Member
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Post by Ki on Dec 12, 2011 19:40:23 GMT -5
Most recent poll results @ newmexicoboxing.com > poll is still active. WHAT SHOULD HOLLY HOLM DO NEXT? Fight MMA - retire from boxing > 7% Fight Cecilia Braekhus, Then Rematch Mathis > 9% Rematch Mathis ASAP > 18% Tune-Up, then rematch Mathis > 24% RETIRE > 42% I voted for retire. MMA is just too boring. You have a right to your opinion but I think your wrong, if Cecilia got her booty kicked by Mathis would you tell her to retire,Todd?? I think Holms needs to retire from MMA and focus on finishing boxing first by fighting Cecilia, Lamare will not give her a rematch in NM, then tune up and fight Melissa Hernandes then fight Mathis!! I give holm credit for standing her ground and pounding out with Mathis, she is the number 1 best female boxer as far as popularity and promoted female boxers goes, she has her faults, I am not a fan of her myself but i dont kick a man not even a woman when they are down! Jason I agree with you almost 100% I feel Holly has been on a self destruct mode for some time by trying this MMA circus act. It's a distraction from her boxing. I wasn't partial to either fighter winning but after watching it I have some mixed feelings about it. I'm curious what the score was leading up to the big knockdown in the 6th. I read someone say that it doesn't matter because Mathis scored a KO but yes it does matter and I think Holly was ahead until she decided to bang with the Mathis. True Mathis scored a KO but after what?........ 1) The help of the ref by not giving and 8 count in the 6th 2) The help of Holly by not sticking to her own boxing plan 3) Holly's corner for not looking out for her best interest after she was hurt. 4) The help of the ref again for allowing Mathis to pound on a defenseless fighter tied up in the ropes. Reminded me of Big Time Wrestling and is nothing short of hitting a downed opponent. A real champion there. 5. The ref standing Holly up for the kill even TD or Tod could have KO'd Holly at that point. If I was Mathis I'd be embarrassed to accept the knockout of the year or century award without including the Referee after all he helped. Can they both share the belt together? Just my opinion and we are all entitled to one including those that will cry about mine. But then, it's really a good thing Mathis won because some on this board would have had heart failure if she didn't..... Ki
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Post by longjab on Dec 13, 2011 12:46:34 GMT -5
Folks,
Holly Holm was quoted as saying this: "I'd definitely like a rematch. I mean, even walking into that fight, I'm gonna know what I'm up against...."
You got to be kidding me!
If Holly didn't know what she was up against going into the first fight with Mathis, the blame squarely falls on her team for not doing their 'due dilligence' and planning for a strategy to fight Mathis to begin with!
How foolish, negligent and dangerous of them to not do so!
Holm could have been killed, due to this beating!
Is this how the folks on the Indian reservation and New Mexico work, by not doing anything?
Longjab
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Post by TD on Dec 13, 2011 16:29:22 GMT -5
Todd- Braekus will get knocked out quicker than Holm if she fights Mathis. Holm actually changed things up on Mathis in the first 4 rounds. She went at Mathis. That actually kept her in the fight for those 4 rounds. Braekus can ONLY go at Mathis. It will be a short fight. Braekus has less pop than Holm...I truely believe that Holm could have hit Mathis with a 2X4 and had the same outcome.
Ki---I get/hear your point, that Mathis showed less than great sportsmanship by hitting a "helpless" fighter. Helpless in this case = left arm caught over the top of a ring rope.
Mathis threw 3 shots at Holm while she was entangled, none of them causing real damage. Then the ref stepped in, un-hooked HOLM and let the fight continue. I looked at Holm's condition at that moment, just after the un-hooking. Her gloves went up and she was moving. Was she ready to fight? Probably not. Was she ready to quit? NO. Was the fight stoppable at that moment? NO. Why NOT? Holm was ready to fight, her eyes still were focusing, she was moving and her gloves were in a semi-defensive position. I've seen refs wipe the gloves of a knocked down fighter on their shirt ( to remove mat dirt), the fighter literally lets their gloves drop and the ref lets the fight continue...of course THAT fighter got killed. Then you have the other side--a knocked down fighter acts very much like they want to continue, do everything to indicate that and the ref stops the fight.
Remember, Mathis punched Holm into the ropes, Holm was throwing a punch that was caught by the ring rope...so the fight was ON, in the midst of a "moment" of intense action.
Could the ref have called a knockdown since the ring rope seemed to hold Holm up? NO.
Could the ref have looked at Holm a bit longer and closer? YES.
Would I blame mathis for anything? NO. NO ISSUE IMO. Remember, Holm was throwing a punch and that snagged her. She was NOT trying to hold onto a rope, she was NOT intent on using the rope to keep standing, she was in the middle of fighting back and she got caught in the rope.
Also, the ref , who I believe is a fair ref and a decent guy, has worked many of Holm's fights, is very familiar with her and obviously, was a friendly "pick" by the promoter. The promoter can't select the ref, but he can suggest the ref. So this REF was probably biased by familiarity toward Holm. Not against her. And he is highly qualified via the extensive number of fights he has ref'd. Just my 2 cents. Was it the knockout of the year? YES. It might be THE knockout of the female side of the sport.
TD
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Post by Dee Williams on Dec 14, 2011 9:45:23 GMT -5
In my opinion Mathis and her team were thoroughly professional in every way. They knew what they were getting into, took Sue's advice to go early to Albuquerque to acclimatize Anne So to the dry climate and mile high altitude well before the fight and they stayed focused from start to finish on what they had to do win far from their home. Mathis fought her own fight and was never shaken from her plan. Nobody but Marischa Sjauw has ever been able to slow her down or back her up, she is a very determined and professional fighter. I cannot begin to fault her for being ruthless and effective finishing this fight once the referee and corner let Holly Holm continue. I think ASM deserves to be Fighter of the Year for 2011.
I also hope her autobiography gets translated into English some day so more people will read about how she has learned and applied the lessons of the ring in her life and vice versa. Her father died when she was young and she did not know he had been a boxer until her mother told her - after Anne So won her first world title!
Sue was impressed by the Mathis team after the time she spent with them at the event and I hope someone with video caught the big hug she gave Anne Sophie after she won.
You can criticize some of what the ref did and also some of what Holm's team did or did not do but I see nothing to criticize at all in what Mathis or her team did.
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Post by TD on Dec 14, 2011 13:42:48 GMT -5
Todd--if your goal is to get Holly OUT of a manditory rematch with Mathis, then you are going about it the right way--by demanding a rematch between Holm and Mathis within 90 days. Nobody, not even Lenny would / could / should consider that in light of the beating Holm took. It was so savage and such a one-sided fight that I don't expect Holly to ever fight Sophie again. So good call demanding they fight in 90 days. It won't ever happen in 90 days and if it doesn't, it won't ever happen, period.
Braekus would beat Holm but get stretched by Mathis, while I think Holly thinks she can beat Braekus so i see a natural affinity for those two to hook up.
So like Vince Lombardi, known for being a tough sly fox, I expect LF to sub Braekus for Mathis in Holly's next fight...but 90 days from Dec. 2nd is wayyyy to quick for Holly to fight again.
But one thing Holly did learn, she needs to move forward thru her punch and not just wing an arm out there. Further, if she does that, she is by far stronger than Braekus. My guess is, Holly is getting about 70-85% of her potential power on her shots. You can well imagine how much POP she has waiting her if she gets through a punch with everything moving forward behind a punch. And if she fights Braekus she better do that. The book has been written on how to KO Holm ( pressure- right uppercuts, short snapping right hand chops and wide flying left hooks to keep her close and in the "box" while making her fight on her back foot).
Now, who wants Mathis? Lamare? Maybe. I'd love to see Marloes Coenen box. She has one of the best right hands ever and she throws all out, all the time with NO FEAR---thats a total commitment to pounding her opponent.
Todd---you are a sly one, one minute you castigate LF over a 90 day rematch, the next you demand it. Very interesting tacts into the wind, "admiral"!!!
TD
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Post by Allan Garside on Dec 15, 2011 9:52:50 GMT -5
from my experience with contracts is that they seem to hinder a fighter more that help them. it binds the fighter to an agreement that may not happen. they must be prepared in case it does happen but get nothing if it doesn't. I wish all Jeannine's contracts had stated that she be paid either after each fight or at the expiry date of the contract, whichever came first otherwise the fighter becomes bound to a promoter with no real guarantee of a fight. the only real guarantee is that they can't do anything that that promoter doesn't agree to. I would say too all fighters that are going into a fight with a rematch clause. Forget about the other fights. Get them out of your mind. there is only only one fight that matters, this one. Allan
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Post by TD on Dec 15, 2011 12:28:14 GMT -5
Allan--agreed on the "mand. rematch clause in the contract"...but fighters do the poorest job of negotiating those contracts. Really, they shouldn't.
Look at other pro athletes...A-Rod would be working for 1 M$/yr. if he rep'd himself. Instead he's hauling home 20-35M$ PLUS/ year.
Fighters look at what is in front of them...they don't look down the road...they seldom imagine what changes after they either WIN or LOSE a fight.
Take Holly's rematch with Mathis...she had to change her game or she gets de-capitated in a rematch. The promoter knows this. Holly's trainer knows this. And Holly knows it too. THAT MAKES A GREAT STORY LINE FOR A REMATCH! Ticket prices go up by 25%. Interest builds to see the fight everywhere. Now, you might even sell a PPV in France! You will certainly sell PPVs in the USA---we have a great compelling story line---CHAMP FIGHTS REMATCH AGAINST EX-CHAMP WHO CLAIMS SHE WILL RE-TAKE HER BELTS BACK!
I will bet neither Holly nor Sophie realized the rev. boost that was built into their rematch clause!
So if LF is smart, he'll get Holly a rematch AFTER he gets her a confidence builder, he'll keep Sophie on the hook with some more money and he'll take home a bigger pile of $$$ than his last pile!
Who wins? The promoter. And the fans. And of course, the winner of the re-match.
But to imagine that when you signed a 2 fight contract is very hard to do.
In terms of Jeannine--- I am sad for the Champ. She is exciting as all get out to watch, she fights about 100 pounds above her "weight" and is deserving of a huge fight at home, in front of fans that love watching her. But you need a promoter that believes in her and has a plan along with a casino venue and some cable tv expertese to put together an escalating-revenue sharing-multi fight contract with tangible incentives and real rewards...
TD
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Post by Allan Garside on Dec 15, 2011 14:15:54 GMT -5
I don't know what the holms/ mathis rematch clause states except that it expires in 90 days. thats three months. Holy rarely fights in less that three months. After 3 months frezquest is probobly off the hook anyways. so if a fighter is offered a pie in the sky rematch clause. they should maybe have some kind of garantee that they will be paid something regardless if they fight the rematch or not. so long as its not themselfs who has backed out.
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Jan 15, 2012 19:15:44 GMT -5
For those that might have missed it due to it being posted right before the New Year's, there is an excellent 22 minute interview with Holly Holm done by Van Tate's Sports Office at KRQE (krqe.com)
I don't think WBAN posted the interview. It would be a great video-link.
"Van Tate's Sports Office: Boxer Holly Holm @krqe.com"
check it out Holm talks about the Mathis fight, all the support she has received and that she has no plans to retire....
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Post by TD on Jan 17, 2012 11:02:28 GMT -5
Todd-- Holly needs a long vacation and deserves one. If she plans on dodging a fight for a champiosnhip, then what would be the point in fighting at all. Every single fight is a question of who is better but a championship fight is a question of who is the BEST. To say, " nah, I don't want to fight Mathis", who is the champion, means she really doesn't want to fight at all.
Sure, they can dig up an opponent, pay that person her biggest payday in her life to go to NM, but it MATTERS NOT!
The old timers would FIGHT TO GET A REMATCH AND JUMP AT CHAMPIONSHIP OFFER. To hear people listen to someone say in a roundabout way, I DON'T WANT MY BELTS BACK and think BRAVO WELL SAID, foretells of future problems against lesser opponents.
When Holly got KO'd by Trisha Hill, she went sideways out of kickboxing and into boxing. MMA might be that exit stage right. And the door is wide open. Cyborg won't fight again for a long time, and when she does, she will have to get by the little cup. I know 2 fighters that would love a shot at a clean Cyborg. So if Holly can jump into MMA, fight up the rankings and look good-- well then her fighting has meaning and pay day potential.
Its safe to say that fighting on an international "stage" for the UFC is alot more rewarding than fighting in NM.
TD
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Jan 18, 2012 13:13:10 GMT -5
MEGA-THANX to Sue/Dee/WBAN for posting the Holm-KRQE interview. TD > one point about "Juiced-Up" Cyborg Santos. I've lost all respect for her as a MMA fighter. I hope she never gets to fight in the U.S.A. again. Let her go off and compete in body-building shows or go mountain biking with Lance Armstrong. She crossed an ethical line that shows she has absolutely no respect for the other women in MMA that play by the rules. She is a joke!!!!!!!!!! As for Holm, she'll most likely just end up doing whatever LF decides for her...................
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Post by TD on Jan 18, 2012 14:38:53 GMT -5
Todd- Cyborg will pay like all cheaters pay...at some point, they all face the music. And speaking of that, shouldn't all HOMER shading be exposed and or described as cheating-lite? I am sure LF wants more boxing, less MMA. But really, why take a pay cut to box when the lane to the top of the MMA world is now wide open. Cyborg will come back around, like Haley's Comet without the tail. And her tail will get royally kicked. I saw marloes jack her square with an overhand right that would have knocked out Mathis and Holm at once...cyborg shook it off and leaped forward like a jucied up tiger, slammed marloes to the mat and in a whirl of leather, pounded about 15 hammer shots in row into Marloes. Afterward, marloes looked disfigured. Now we have the evidence that was behind the whispers all along. I read one so called MMA Powerbroker who acted stunned about Cyborg's juicing. Stunned? Maybe stunned that it went on for so long. Maybe stunned that nobody, including the opposing camps insisted on the small plastic cup, maybe stunned that nobody with a microphone had the courage to ask Cyborg what she was on. Right now Dana White is looking at photos...photos of certain MMA fighters, he's looking closely at how their jaws have changed...and then he's matching those photos against his show schedules. The biggest threat to his bank account is the JUICE. I realize Congress had to act on America's Pasttime Steroid abuse, especially after Jose blew the whistle...but someone will blow the same whistle on certain MMA "stars" one day and that act will force Dana to one day be raising his right hand on CNN. MEANWHILE, THE WORLD MMA TITLE AT 145 IS VACANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A cute, in-shape, clean, reliable, banger could make a million or two in less than 2 years! TD
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Jan 23, 2012 11:37:43 GMT -5
THE FULL FIGHT - Holm vs. Mathis PART ONE www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx3evvjsMzsTHE FULL FIGHT - Holm vs. Mathis PART TWO www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSeBjSqv9Xc&feature=relatedIt would be great to understand the French language, so that I could listen to the comments Mathis and the show's hosts are making while they review the fight. It's wonderful to see Mathis getting this kind of national exposure on a boxing TV show in France. Too bad the same can't happen here in the U.S.A. for women's boxing.
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Post by longjab on Jan 26, 2012 19:55:32 GMT -5
Folks,
Sorry, but the full Youtube video of the fight has been removed, due to multiple copyright infringments.
I guess we'll have to view it from somewhere else, if that ever happens.
Longjab
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Post by Rick Scharmberg on Jan 30, 2012 10:24:27 GMT -5
Mathis - Mrdjenovich: Two Fighters to be Reckoned with by Sue Fox @ WBAN One of the BEST posts Sue has EVER put up on WBAN. Is anyone else excited about Mrdjenovich v Wallberg? ? If Sue maintains a credible amount of independence - and continues to be a strong voice for the women actually boxing in the ring, which she has always seemed to do - all will be fine. Sue and WBAN are the voice of women's boxing.
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Post by Rick Scharmberg on Jan 30, 2012 10:42:29 GMT -5
You have a right to your opinion but I think your wrong, if Cecilia got her booty kicked by Mathis would you tell her to retire,Todd?? I think Holms needs to retire from MMA and focus on finishing boxing first by fighting Cecilia, Lamare will not give her a rematch in NM, then tune up and fight Melissa Hernandes then fight Mathis!! I give holm credit for standing her ground and pounding out with Mathis, she is the number 1 best female boxer as far as popularity and promoted female boxers goes, she has her faults, I am not a fan of her myself but i dont kick a man not even a woman when they are down! Jason I agree with you almost 100% I feel Holly has been on a self destruct mode for some time by trying this MMA circus act. It's a distraction from her boxing. I wasn't partial to either fighter winning but after watching it I have some mixed feelings about it. I'm curious what the score was leading up to the big knockdown in the 6th. I read someone say that it doesn't matter because Mathis scored a KO but yes it does matter and I think Holly was ahead until she decided to bang with the Mathis. True Mathis scored a KO but after what?........ 1) The help of the ref by not giving and 8 count in the 6th 2) The help of Holly by not sticking to her own boxing plan 3) Holly's corner for not looking out for her best interest after she was hurt. 4) The help of the ref again for allowing Mathis to pound on a defenseless fighter tied up in the ropes. Reminded me of Big Time Wrestling and is nothing short of hitting a downed opponent. A real champion there. 5. The ref standing Holly up for the kill even TD or Tod could have KO'd Holly at that point. If I was Mathis I'd be embarrassed to accept the knockout of the year or century award without including the Referee after all he helped. Can they both share the belt together? Just my opinion and we are all entitled to one including those that will cry about mine. But then, it's really a good thing Mathis won because some on this board would have had heart failure if she didn't..... Ki KI, you tell it like it is LOL!
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Post by Martin Peters on Jun 16, 2012 2:23:10 GMT -5
Well, well, well...how a load of experts (plus me!) can make the wrong predictions...Holm victorious on points.
Haven't seen the fight, just read a couple of reports. Was there a bigger ring than usual to help Holly...though from all accounts she fought a pretty smart bout?
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Post by TD on Jun 19, 2012 15:08:19 GMT -5
Martin---- you have a link to a replay of Holm-Mathis #2?
I have to see this one, top to bottom.
Meanwhile, boycott any fight Judge Duane Ford judges...he's the same judge that said Bradley gave Pacman a boxing lesson?!?!? And that's why he scored the fight the way he did. I suggest FREE eye check up for Ford as Pacman outpunched and outlanded Bradley in every punch stat category. Maybe he has invented a new definition known only to himself for a "boxing lesson", but Bradley gave nobody a lesson on anything. Funny how Bradley had a gian prop ready for the post fight news conference that showed PACMAN VS. BRADLEY #2. And so much for a deeply credentialed holy judge from nevada named Duane Ford.
Meanwhile, Holly won...ain't nobody gonna change that...but I have to see it to believe it. Why? I won't believe any score Judge Ford ever posts again.
I like what Bob Arum said when asking Nevada for an official inquiry into the judging of Bradley v. Pacman, " a little bit of sunshine never hurt anyone"...Bob, boxing officials wear those 5X neutral density shades for a reason. SUNSHINE KILLS VAMPIRES.
TD
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Post by Martin Peters on Jun 21, 2012 5:58:37 GMT -5
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Post by TD on Jun 21, 2012 16:47:06 GMT -5
martin-- it was good enough. I watched the entire "fight".
Holly is always a class act, a great sportswoman, a decent lady, great looking, and in great shape. Usually, she is a decent enough of a boxer / counterpuncher. I would expect her to admit in public, that she did NOT beat Sophie Mathis in that fight.
The crowd was truely amazing...not because they cheered on a winning fighter, they cheered for a surviving fighter. HOLM SURVIVED MATHIS.
Ref. John Schorle is a great ref. who always gives great work in the ring. He spoke to Holm maybe 3 or 4 times, never really warned her for holding and never came close to penalizing her. Why? Holly Holm was cleaver. The action went like this: Mathis stalking Holm, Mathis throwing punches, Holm jumps in with a counter right hand that turns into a grabbing arm that ties Mathis up. Before the ref can even get to them to break them, Holm was gone. Running side to side or back. It was like she invented a new punch- the jab-grab. Mathis response was to slap Holm with her glove on the side of her head or back when they tied up for any length of time. Holm complained about that but quickly realized why Mathis was doing that.
The old time trainers will tell a grabbed fighter to swat the other fighter in the back of the head ( illegal), the thinking being the grabber will NOT want to get slapped in the back of the head so they will stop grabbing. Other trainers will say, THROW THE GRABBER OFF OF YOU, MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT IT. THE REF WILL START TO NOTICE AND WARN BOTH THE GRABBER AND THE THROWER.
MATHIS SHOULD HAVE JUST RAN THE OTHER WAY...BOTH FIGHTERS CIRCLING, NOT DOING ANYTHING WOULD HAVE BEEN A FAIR WAY TO RESPOND TO A RUNNER. THE SCORE WOULD HAVE BEEN 90-90, BOTH FIGHTERS LOSING A POINT/ROUND FOR NOT FIGHTING.
Anybody watching, who has a shred of sportsmanship has to give the fight to Mathis. She controlled the action by making the action, she threw more,she landed more, she ran the ring.
Granted, Mathis should have thrown the grappling Holm to the side on the tie-ups, she should have kept punching or shrugging like mad to get Holm off of her.
So who won this fight for Holm? Her fans and seriously flawed judging. Their cheers led you to feel that Holly was actually doing something on her brief flurry and grabs. Seriously, I think 2 jabs moved Mathis head just a tad...only because Mathis ran into those jabs.
I scored Mathis 99- Holm 95 fairley easily. I felt bad for Mathis-- the lady likes to fight and all she got was a Holly HOLD. She could have moved side to side more to cut Holly off, but Holm was literally jumping side to side away from Mathis...so any JUDGE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND HAS TO GIVE THE BENEFIT TO THE FIGHTER MAKING THE FIGHT, CONTROLLING THE OTHER FIGHTER.
Truthfully, if you ask Sophie if she was hit by a Holm punch, I don't think she will say yeah maybe 3 or 4 over the entire fight.
Anybody trying to say this was Sugar Ray v. hagler have to consider, Sugar Ray actually hit Hagler more than Hagler Hit Sugar Ray. Can't say this about this fight.
TD
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Post by Paul Dennis on Mar 23, 2013 12:42:33 GMT -5
Re Mathis v Holm I, it seems a pity that all the controversy about referee and corner-men tended to overshadow the brilliance - and brutality - of Mathis' winning display. Once she got Holm in trouble she punished her with tremendous power and accuracy. It's lucky that Holm didn't sustain serious injury.
One aspect of Mathis' work that didn't draw much comment relates to her use of the ring near the end of the bout. As Burke was untangling Holm from the ropes (when, of course, he should have been stopping the fight), Mathis stepped right back. So when she moved forward for the final assault she did so with considerable momentum, which added to the velocity of her two-punch finish.
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Post by Paul Dennis on Feb 23, 2014 12:45:02 GMT -5
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