Holm Wins Over Saccurato

[Bernie McCoy]

[quote author=jr


Bernie McCoy,



As I promised last January, I forwarded to Mia St. John an initial thirteen links to your body of work documenting your disdain for her along with an outline and two working titles for a chapter in her upcoming book.

I don’t know if she reads them so you’ll have to read the book.

I’ve accumulated several more links and will send them to her in batches of ten.
[/quote]

Sounds like a lot of work.

Bernie

[Rick Scharmberg]

Chris Cozzone covers not only New Mexico boxing, but the entire Southwest, including Las Vegas. His forte is photography. He is an outstanding photographer; one of the best in the sport. He is also a very good writer, but even the best can get caught up in the hometown hype. I had a feeling Chris would catch some heat, especially after he said that Holly outclassed her. Chris is a pro, though. I doubt very much if he succumbed to any pressure from anyone to write a certain way.

[Dee Williams]

jr said:

Holly Holm is the number one draw, male or female, of boxing in New Mexico. Without her, Cozzone will have little boxing to write about, hence the "meal card" statement. There are other sports writers in that state but his articles are the ones featured on Fresquez Productions and Holm's website.

Albuquerque has very little else but boxing in pro sports, it's one of the few places its size where boxing is the MAIN pro sport. Holm is probably the number one sports personality in that city, not just the number one draw in boxing. Cozzone is a very good boxing photographer who has covered all New Mexico and Colorado boxers, male and female, as well as some from surrounding states, fpor years He also started one of the earliest web sites about women's boxing and has always given extensive coverage to ALL of the women boxers in his region. When people make web sites for boxers and promoters they always use press coverage that's aready on the web and has lots of pictures already, so it's only natural that Cozzone's work is also used on the web sites of the people he covers. He is one of the pioneers of making women's boxing coverage available on the net and he was shining the spotlight on women's boxing in the South West before Holly Holm was any kind of figure in the sport.

Like all local sports coverage, he talks up his local teams. He did that for all of them, not just for Holm.

Other regions should be so lucky as to have photographers as willing to go to all the women's fight cards and take excellent photos as Chris does for the New Mexico and Colorado female boxers. He is also generous with his work and makes it freely available to other people who write about the boxers, even to "rival" web sites like WBAN.

He is one of the people who have helped to build up women's boxing's presence on the web since the early days of net coverage of the sport, so there are good, not sinister, reasons why you see so much of his work.

[Dee Williams]

jr said:

Jackie Chavez is an outsider to the two promoters of the card so the Promoter's Advantage worked against her.

Yes and she was also the home town girl who was given a chance to redeem an earlier loss to Brown that occurred in Brown's (original) back yard, but Jackie came up short because Brown was too experienced and strong for her.

Brown had the advantage because she was the better boxer who had been tested harder at all levels, and this time Brown was the one fighting far from her home turf.

I can remember when Lisa Brown was trying to turn pro and couldn't get anyone to fight her because of her amateur experience. She took fights in other peoples' home towns at short notice, paid her dues. She went to Arizona to fight Leilani Salazar, to New York to fight Leona Brown, to Ohio to fight Kelli Cofer, to Florida to fight Ada Velez, to Australia to fight Sharon Anyos. Toronto is a small market for boxing and Lisa isn't going to get many fights there, so she hits the road for most of her fights. She's earned her place in the sport and she outboxed Jackie Chavez in just about everybody's eyes but Mia St. John's. True that Jackie rallied in front of her home crowd and put on a better show in the later rounds (where altitude might have been getting to Lisa a little as well) than she did at the start of the fight, but Lisa's title fight experience showed as she varied her attack and kept good control of the action even when Jackie had the home crowd rooting for her. Lisa won that fight by a good margin and she is a very worthy champion.

J

[Dee Williams]

jr said:

As I promised last January, I forwarded to Mia St. John an initial thirteen links to your body of work documenting your disdain for her along with an outline and two working titles for a chapter in her upcoming book.

A bolt of fear shot through him as
he looked up in the sky ...

For he saw the writers comin' hard
And he heard their mournful cry:

Yippee-yi-ya, yippee-yi-yo,

Ghost writers in the sky.

[Rick Scharmberg]

admin said:

jr said:

Holly Holm is the number one draw, male or female, of boxing in New Mexico. Without her, Cozzone will have little boxing to write about, hence the "meal card" statement. There are other sports writers in that state but his articles are the ones featured on Fresquez Productions and Holm's website.

Albuquerque has very little else but boxing in pro sports, it's one of the few places its size where boxing is the MAIN pro sport. Holm is probably the number one sports personality in that city, not just the number one draw in boxing. Cozzone is a very good boxing photographer who has covered all New Mexico and Colorado boxers, male and female, as well as some from surrounding states, fpor years He also started one of the earliest web sites about women's boxing and has always given extensive coverage to ALL of the women boxers in his region. When people make web sites for boxers and promoters they always use press coverage that's aready on the web and has lots of pictures already, so it's only natural that Cozzone's work is also used on the web sites of the people he covers. He is one of the pioneers of making women's boxing coverage available on the net and he was shining the spotlight on women's boxing in the South West before Holly Holm was any kind of figure in the sport.

Like all local sports coverage, he talks up his local teams. He did that for all of them, not just for Holm.

Other regions should be so lucky as to have photographers as willing to go to all the women's fight cards and take excellent photos as Chris does for the New Mexico and Colorado female boxers. He is also generous with his work and makes it freely available to other people who write about the boxers, even to "rival" web sites like WBAN.

He is one of the people who have helped to build up women's boxing's presence on the web since the early days of net coverage of the sport, so there are good, not sinister, reasons why you see so much of his work.

Well spoken, Dee. Chris is certainly a friend of women's boxing.

[Rick Scharmberg]

How come everybody around the world got to see the entire HOLM-SACCURATO fight except me? Much to my surprise and dismay, COMCAST cable reclaimed "their" channel after two hours, which came precisely at the 1:30 mark of round seven of the main event. They expertly faded out the commentary on the fight, and brought in Andy Reid, who returned to the Philadelphia Eagles after dealing with his sons' (yes, both of them) personal issues, which involved guns, drugs, and alcohol. It is not even April, mind you, but they deemed this news more important than a live bout, and saw fit to claim their precious 1am timeslot.

I have the tape, if Rick Kulis, or anyone else involved with the promotion wants to make an issue of it.

[Dee Williams]

luvaboy97 said:

Now watch what happens, Holm will probably fight Mia St. John again at some point, or maybe Christy Martin will come back and FOX will grab that rematch. But I don't see Sanders coming from ESPN or Detroit and I don't see Holm leaving NM.

I wonder if Martin vs. Sanders could still be made? Sanders is gradually moving up in weight, though ...

[B. Singh]

ryanwissow said:

singh said:

Ryan,

Its no surprise to me that you always think the LOSER is the WINNER.

The scoring was messed up.

Tough luck for Saccurato, but I would think by now that any fighter that goes to Holly's hometown should know that they have to walk with a 'big stick' to knock the crap out of Holly to win.

==Dude, did you even see this fight? you are in Trinidad so i seriously doubt it.
for what its worth, i thought Yvonne Caples beat Ria in their fight, but i am not a judge and my opinion doesnt effect the judges scoring of a fight.==
RYAN

Dude.....have u ever heard of something called technology??

Dude...just because I live in Trinidad doesn't mean I can't see the fight....DUH!!!!

We have a saying in Trinidad "If u make assumations u make an ass out of yourself"

So Ryan don't make an ass out of yourself...OPPS TOO LATE.

Re Caples I distinctly recalled reading an article where u said that u agreed that Ria won the fight AND u also mentioned a mandatory rematch between them. If u can't recall I can easily find the article and post it. In my opinion mandatory rematches mean zero in women’s boxing.

[TD]

td said:

td said:

<insult removed> ..even Cozzone will tell you he likes HOLM and likes N MEX boxers.

I've never read a Cozzone report that did NOT play/pay tribute to his hometowners.

TD

I was quoting what Ann-Marie said about the fight, NOT what Chris Cozzone said about it - Dee.

Insult removed? What insult?

I'm not going to put it back! I've lost patience with your insults in this Forum and in both its predecessors, so figure out how to post without them or your posts will be edited ... Dee


Why don't YOU NOT read any of my posts. Period. Got that?

TD

I read everything in this Forum because I am its admin. Got THAT?

P.S. You now have the inaugural official Women's Boxing Forum "VIP" award, That's for Very Insulting Poster.

admin said:

Several people have asked me privately today why I allow insulting posts such as the recent series from TD under the "Tell it - Yell it" topic to remain here. One has pointed out that the habitually rude posters may inhibit new members from posting here - to avoid getting abusive responses themselves.

...

I posted several rules when I started this Forum, including:

* You are welcome to speak your mind but please be civil! Rude or insulting posts, or personal attacks, may be removed - as may any with sexual content or hateful speech

* The Forum administrator also reserves the right to ban anyone who willfully violates the Forum rules, or to take other action to ensure that legitimate use of this Forum is not disrupted or abused.

[Rick Scharmberg]

jr said:

Holly Holm was awarded the decision over Ann Marie Saccurato with scores of 98-91 (twice) and 97-92.

I scored the fight with rounds 1,7, and 10 even; rounds 3,6, and 9 for Holm; and rounds 2,4,5, and 8 for Saccurato for a score of 96-95 for Saccurato.

Even with a point deduction in round 7 against Saccurato, the round was even at 9-9. The referee ignored Holm's holding the back of Saccurato's head in round 8.

The expressions on the faces of the fighters told the story. Saccurato was understandably upset at the decision. Holm looked stunned and relieved that she won the decision by the ridiculous scores. The broadcasters scored the fight much closer to my scoring. Saccurato won the fight, lost the decision.

Welcome to Albuquerque.

Three even rounds in a 10 round fight? IMO, that's impossible. Next time you score, pick a winner for every round. You'll find that you'll get a clearer picture of the winner.

[jr]

ricks said:

jr said:

Holly Holm was awarded the decision over Ann Marie Saccurato with scores of 98-91 (twice) and 97-92.

I scored the fight with rounds 1,7, and 10 even; rounds 3,6, and 9 for Holm; and rounds 2,4,5, and 8 for Saccurato for a score of 96-95 for Saccurato.

Even with a point deduction in round 7 against Saccurato, the round was even at 9-9. The referee ignored Holm's holding the back of Saccurato's head in round 8.

The expressions on the faces of the fighters told the story. Saccurato was understandably upset at the decision. Holm looked stunned and relieved that she won the decision by the ridiculous scores. The broadcasters scored the fight much closer to my scoring. Saccurato won the fight, lost the decision.

Welcome to Albuquerque.

Three even rounds in a 10 round fight? IMO, that's impossible. Next time you score, pick a winner for every round. You'll find that you'll get a clearer picture of the winner.

If I had to pick a winner of every round, Saccurato would win two of the three I scored even.

Judges should be willing to score rounds even. See the Teddy Atlas interview at www.fightnews.com/schreck16.htm

It's no surprise how quiet Holm and Fresquez Productions have been about this contest. The Albuquerque scoring was atrocious and they know it. Being silent will not end the controversy.

And what does Holly Holm do now? After the Saccurato bout, any fight will be anti-climatic. It is quite possible her boxing career is over in Albuquerque.

[TD]

jr said:

ricks said:

Three even rounds in a 10 round fight? IMO, that's impossible. Next time you score, pick a winner for every round. You'll find that you'll get a clearer picture of the winner.

If I had to pick a winner of every round, Saccurato would win two of the three I scored even.

Judges should be willing to score rounds even. See the Teddy Atlas interview at www.fightnews.com/schreck16.htm

It's no surprise how quiet Holm and Fresquez Productions have been about this contest. The Albuquerque scoring was atrocious and they know it. Being silent will not end the controversy.

And what does Holly Holm do now? After the Saccurato bout, any fight will be anti-climatic. It is quite possible her boxing career is over in Albuquerque.

JR...I think the basic instinct of any judge should be to pick a winner of the round. So they run thru the criteria/specifications of HOW THEY WERE TAUGHT and INSTRUCTED to score a round. Only AFTER running thru that and they still can't say WHO won the round should they call it an EVEN ROUND.

Are all judges taught how to score the same? Do all judges around the USA and WORLD have the exact same methods of picking a winner in every round?

NO.

How do you re-program a bad judge or a judge that is OUT of spec. in terms of calling a winner in that round?

How is HARDER punches landed determined( effective aggression)?

And of course my favorite criteria that a bad judge CAN hide behind, RING GENERALSHIP.
Not necessarily who is MAKING the fight, rather who is deciding what the dominant type of fighting that is occuring, as in I MADE MY OPPONENT FIGHT MY KIND OF FIGHT ( think of Duran V. Sugar Ray #1 which was fought inside). For instance, a counter puncher who runs back wards to set up a forward moving fighter and then consistently counters well because that fighter MADE the other fighter come forward. Does that beat effective aggression or is that actually effective agression..and to what extent do you weigh that against OTHER criteria that occured in the same round...?

Let's line up every judge in the USA, show them all the same 4 rounds of a fight and have them all score the same fight on 4 different criteria per each round. And from there develop a universal instruction criteria with very important specific examples of the exact same fight. Nice idea. Not gonna happen unless Commissioner Atlas says so. Then maybe he can clean up the bogus rating schemes that take ZERO accountability for recent-obvious improvements and recent changes in weight class.

TD