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Post by TD on May 13, 2010 22:00:41 GMT -5
Great update from WBAN below on what Dee calls "road hazard" or fighting in somebody else's backyard.
Did anyone see this fight or have a link to a video of the fight? I believe Corinne's side of the fight because she's been very reliable and straight up her entire career.
TD
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MAY 12) With the WIBA bantam title at stake, Corinne VanRyckDeGroot (11-1, 5 KO) has been preparing to rematch Guyana's Shondell Alfred (11-5), again in Guyana May 22, after a September 2009 fight that left Corinne, who resides in Atlanta, Georgia, on the losing end of their first title clash. Corinne offered details of the fight. ìShe dropped me in the third round, then I dropped her once in the eighth round, and three times in the tenth,î Corinne said ì The last knockdown, there were 10 or 15 seconds left in the round when I caught her with a straight left to the body then a left hook to the head. She went down, her gloves touched the canvas. The referee ruled it a slip, picked her up and walked her back to her corner.î Amazingly, Alfred was given a unanimous decision, but Corinne is not about to let the title go again. ìMay twenty second,,î Corinne promised, ìI am not leaving a decision in the hands of the officials. I'm knocking Shondell Alfred OUT, and she will wish that the first time the referee hadn't cheated.î After securing the WIBA title, Corinne's goal is to keep busy by unifying all of the 118 pound titles, then see what other opportunities present themselves.
Since the first Alfred bout, Corinne has spent time healing a pinched nerve in her neck, doing stunt work for some television shows and feature movies, and mentoring junior high girls in the Atlanta area, and of course, training for the rematch with Alfred.
With her work that includes television and films, Corinne has enjoyed lots of exposure and visibility, but hopes women's boxing is finally recognized and given air time on such premium channels as HBO, but believes promoters need to present better bouts with fighters being of equal caliber. ìWhen female fighters are given opponents of equal caliber and not badly mismatched, you will get good, strong matches,î Corinne said, ìinstead what happens is promoters mismatching the fighters so badly that the entire skill level of female fighters looks poor. There are very good female fighters out there, they're just not being showcased properlyî.
May twenty second Corinne plans to showcase her talents and bring the WIBA bantam title home to Atlanta, then stay prepared for her next ring date. She is looking forward to the challenge of unifying the 118 pound titles and is ready to see who will step up and fight.
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Post by Dee Williams on May 13, 2010 23:25:51 GMT -5
Ryan Wissow saw it like this:
“The referee missed a knockdown in round 10, but by then Shondell was well ahead on points and even if he scored other knockdowns, Shondell still would’ve won a decision. The referee did a good job from rounds 1 through 9,” Wissow said via an email to this news paper explaining the decision for the rematch.
The WIBA boss added that… “Her (De Groot) people actually wanted me to overturn the decision, which is outrageous! She came on strong late in the fight, but by then she was way behind on the scorecards,” added Wissow.
Wissow said that the decision was fair, but it was the referee who was the main issue. The rematch, he says might take place in the USA, adding that he had already gotten a call from one promoter.But he ordered a rematch  Ian Alves scored the fight 99-90, Lionel Sullivan 97-90 and Trevor Arno 96-92, all for Alfred. www.caribbeansportsnetwork.com/cms/boxing/473-wiba-orders-rematch-between-degroot-and-alfred?28e5bbf660cb545fc854f5c048c7be7c=644ec1fe3f5a7553e8a30b77359af14b
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Post by Dee Williams on May 13, 2010 23:32:07 GMT -5
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Post by TD on May 14, 2010 10:42:29 GMT -5
“The referee missed a knockdown in round 10, but by then Shondell was well ahead on points and even if he scored other knockdowns, Shondell still would’ve won a decision. The referee did a good job from rounds 1 through 9,” Wissow said via an email to this news paper explaining the decision for the rematch. The WIBA boss added that… “Her (De Groot) people actually wanted me to overturn the decision, which is outrageous! She came on strong late in the fight, but by then she was way behind on the scorecards,” added Wissow. Wissow said that the decision was fair, but it was the referee who was the main issue. The rematch, he says might take place in the USA, adding that he had already gotten a call from one promoter.[/color] But he ordered a rematch Ian Alves scored the fight 99-90, Lionel Sullivan 97-90 and Trevor Arno 96-92, all for Alfred. MATH QUESTION: Fighter scores 3 knockdowns in round ( but only gets credit for 2) , a knockdown in another round BUT LOSES all 10 rounds on two judges score cards?  ?? Alves had Corinne at 90 and Sullivan had her at 90. Judges Alves and Sullivan---how do you get 90? Really hard to see how that can possibly happen, and still have a straight face. ANYBODY SEE THIS FIGHT? TD Maybe Ryan can splain dis better than a math challenged student like my self. |
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Post by Dee Williams on May 14, 2010 23:42:20 GMT -5
MATH QUESTION: Fighter scores 3 knockdowns in round ( but only gets credit for 2) , a knockdown in another round BUT LOSES all 10 rounds on two judges score cards? ?? Alves had Corinne at 90 and Sullivan had her at 90. Judges Alves and Sullivan---how do you get 90? Maybe Ryan can splain dis better than a math challenged student like my self. It's possible because a 90 does not have to mean de Groot lost all 10 rounds like Tom De Napoli said. That's because de Groot was knocked down, in (I think) the second (she says it was the third in that recent interview, but fight reports at the time all said it was the second). If they scored that round a 10-8 for Alfred, and ruled what happened in the eighth round a slip by Alfred, it's "mathematically" possible to have those scores with de Groot winning the final round 10-9 (for the 99-90) or 10-7 (for the 97-90). To be clear, I'm only trying to "splain dis" for the "math-challenged". I have not seen the fight. |
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Post by TD on May 15, 2010 0:42:09 GMT -5
Well D-Williams...
'Splain Judge Alves score of 99 for Alfred...IF in fact this quote from Corinne is accurate:
" She dropped me in the third round, then I (corrine) dropped her once in the eighth round, and three times in the tenth,î Corinne said ì The last knockdown, there were 10 or 15 seconds left in the round when I caught her with a straight left to the body then a left hook to the head."
Say Shondell wins all the other rounds by 10 must except the knockdown rounds where she went down...thats 8 rounds, 80 points.
Shondell loses the 8th via the knockdown, but lets give her 8 for that, that's 88 points going into the 10 th round.
Shondell gets knocked down 3 times according to Corinne, but lets say one of those was questionable, so she went down twice, gaining her 7 points...that's 95 points at best for her but possibly 94 or even 93 points if those 3 knockdowns were bonafide.
Judge Arno seems to think it was NOT a walk over, as Judges Alves and Sullivan indicate...But hey, I didn't see the fight. I'd like to.
Shondell would really have to be a kick ass fighter to totally destroy Corinne by a 99-90 score AFTER hitting the canvas 3 to 4 times. Don't you think, Dee Road Hazard Williams. That's right, you input it into your computer as a Alfred W, no questions asked.
TD
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Post by Dee Williams on May 15, 2010 10:53:44 GMT -5
I can see you're more than "mathematically" challenged, Tom. Ryan states that the only problem was round 10, in which there was a real knockdown that was "missed". So presumably that was a round that should have been scored 10-8 for Corinne. But if the referee rules a slip, I can see where one judge scores it 10-9 for Corinne based on that. Another judge sees it as a rout and scores it 10-7 for Corinne. But Corinne already has a 10-8 against her from when she was knocked down (which she does not deny). So so you CAN end up at a 99-90 and a 97-90 score based on what Ryan said, the fight reports at the time, and what Corinne said, presuming they're all reporting something that actually happened but from their own perspectives. I'm not qualified to comment on how fair the scoring was, as I have not seen the fight. Neither have you seen the fight, so neither are you qualified to comment on fairness. But you opened your remarks with "MATH QUESTION" and said you are "math challenged." Maybe Ryan can splain dis better than a math challenged student like my self. I am taking what you said at face value, and giving you the MATH answer to your "math question". It's possible to get those scores with Corinne winning one round, which you said it was not possible. You're wrong about the math. and that's all I am saying. A 90 score in boxing does not mean you lost all 10 rounds if you lost one of them 10-8. Just read it again, Tom, it's quite simple. You just need to read. Come on now, make an effort, you can do it .... Den I don' have to 'splain dis no mo to yo readin' challenged left coasties.. |
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Post by Dee Williams on May 15, 2010 11:06:27 GMT -5
Judge Arno seems to think it was NOT a walk over, as Judges Alves and Sullivan indicate...But hey, I didn't see the fight. I'd like to. Yes, there's a judge who gave Corinne at least a round or two in the earlier going where the others were solid for Shondell. But that judge was also for Shondell by a wide margin, 96-92 is not exactly nail-bitingly close. And different judges scoring close rounds differently in boxing is not exactly new, either. I'm looking forward to the rematch, and here's why: Corinne was knee deep in ring rust coming into the first match with Shondell. When Corinne was really active as a boxer she was very promising, as you can check by reading my bio of her at www.wban.org/biog/cvanryckdegroot.htmbut she'd not fought a major fight since 2002, just a "gimme" fight against a winless novice in 2007. Now she's coming back off her first recorded loss, with a lot to prove, especially in her native country, I expect a different level of performance from her second time around. |
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Post by TD on May 15, 2010 13:30:40 GMT -5
Here's an eye witness to the video of the fight, note, Mr. Benjamin completely MISSES/ FAILS TO MENTION a single knockdown in round 10!!!! ( not sure if WIBA has a mandatory 3 knockdown rule in effect)
Not sure what really went on in this fight except Ryan WIBA Pres., who is totally credible, ruled for a rematch but let Shondell keep the belt. The promoters had to hate that!!!!
TD
The WIBA world title saga: Shondell Alfred won the fight fair and square
OCTOBER 8, 2009 | BY KNEWS | FILED UNDER SPORTS
Shondell 'Mystery Lady' Alfred
By Michael Benjamin
After months of intense wheeling and dealing, S&S Promotions, headed by Stanford Soloman, and Holland’s Enterprise Promotions, headed by Carwyn Holland, expertly managed to negotiate a world title fight between Shondell ‘Mystery Lady’ Alfred and Canadian/Guyanese, Corrine ‘Sexy Panther’ Van d**e Degroot. The fight was staged at the Cliff Anderson Sports Hall (CASH) on September 25 last and at the end of the ten rounds affair, Alfred was pronounced winner and new champion.
Shortly afterwards, Degroot signaled an intention to file a protest to the President of the Women’s International Boxing Association (WIBA), Ryan Wissow over certain inconsistencies that she felt caused her to lose the title. Chief among her concerns was the referee Eon Jardine’s refusal to administer the mandatory 8 count after a perceived knockdown. Degroot resolutely believes that had the referee done his job fairly, the end result would have been different. She is asking the WIBA President to declare the fight null and void and subsequently order a rematch.
To compound the issue, not one dissenting voice was heard representing Alfred’s case and it appears as though Guyanese have lost their nationalistic verve. This deafening silence gives the impression that there was a high degree of credibility to Degroot’s claims. Further, a letter writer, W P George was adamant that Alfred had lost the fight. He then went on to voice his incredulity that after four knockdowns it was impossible for any fighter to come back and win by anything but a knockout. “Something is just not right there,” proclaimed W P George. Notably this gentleman gathers his opinion from a newspaper report which is second hand information. He did not say he actually saw the fight nor was he in any position to verify the authenticity of Degroot’s claim. Yet he feels qualified to make such a strong statement. I would advise this kindly gentleman to review the bout and then comment on its outcome. This is only too fair.
Now, I have had the opportunity of viewing the fight from a vantage point of several meters away from the ring apron. I subsequently reported on what I saw and in my mind Alfred was a clear winner. Admittedly though, there are times when one’s patriotism may very well cause him/her to be inadvertently biased. As such, when I read Mr. George’s letter and listened to Degroot’s concerns I decided to allow a few days to elapse before once again viewing the fight when my mind would have been clear. After so doing, I am more convinced than ever that Alfred deserved to win that title. As such I present a synopsis of what I saw on the tape after a second review.
Round one: Alfred was the attacker while Degroot danced around attempting to get her bearings. Alfred was definitely more aggressive and therefore won that round by a 10-9 margin. Round two: Alfred continued to attack as Degroot pedaled around the ring scoring with an occasional jab. Alfred was definitely more forceful and aggressive to take this round, 10-9. Alfred continued to attack in the third round and the American continued to back pedal. She did look pretty with her fancy foot works but fights are won by punching not skillful foot works. A one two combination floored DeGroot and give Alfred a 10-8 round.
Mind you, it was inconsequential whether the American was gravely hurt. The rule states that a fighter winning a round after scoring a knockdown does so by 2 clear points unless the other fighter puts up such a spirited effort as to narrow the margin.
This was not the case in this fight. To my mind Alfred dominated rounds four, five and six in a clear cut fashion. In my estimation, both fighters rested in the seventh round and because the activity was so stifled I decided that a draw was the best decision for that round.
The ‘knockdown’ in round eight that Degroot contends should have attracted a mandatory count, was a clear cut punch behind Alfred’s head. Even so, that was not the blow that sent Alfred to the canvass as she evidently lost balance. The last two rounds definitely belonged to Degroot by 10-9 margins. It was in these two rounds that she surely stepped up the tempo but Alfred held on to the end. I scored the bout 98-93 in favour of Alfred. The official scores read: Judge Alves 99-90, Judge Arno 96-92 and Judge Sulivan 97-90, all in favour of Alfred. By no stretch of the imagination did DeGroot even come near to winning the fight and I would be extremely surprised if after perusing the tape, the President of the WIBA rules differently.
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Post by Dee Williams on May 15, 2010 14:35:55 GMT -5
Was that analysis from Guyanese boxer Michael Benjamin?
Maybe that was clear in the original but Tom De Napoli didn't source his quote (please add URLs for web quotes so the original sites get credit and so we can also tell where quotes come from).
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Post by Dee Williams on May 15, 2010 14:41:05 GMT -5
Note that when sanctioning bodies settle controversies by ruling rematches, they are also ruling that they get paid their sanctioning fees again |
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Post by Dee Williams on May 29, 2010 0:26:45 GMT -5
The rematch got postponed again because of "engineering problems" with the ring. It's alleged to be happening June 5 now with a different promoter.
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Post by Dee Williams on Jun 6, 2010 9:42:45 GMT -5
Shondell Alfred TKO'd Corinne in the rematch.
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Post by Dee Williams on Jun 7, 2010 11:43:46 GMT -5
Stabroek News reports (go to original for more details and pictures): www.stabroeknews.com/2010/sports/06/07/deadly-finish/
Shondell Alfred made sure the judges were not involved this time in her rematch with Corinne Van Ryck De GrootIt ended in one minute and 24 seconds of the fourth round.
That was all the time it took defending Women’s International Boxing Association (WIBA) bantamweight champion, Shondell Alfred, to score a technical knockout of Corinne Van Ryck De Groot at the Princess Hotel poolside Saturday night.
The win emphatically set to rest any thoughts that Alfred’s victory against De Groot in the previous fight was controversial.
Alfred solved the De Groot mystery, connecting with a right hook to De Groot’s temple and sending her crashing onto the canvas and left her precariously entangled in the ropes.
The Canadian, while on the canvas, receiving her count from referee Andrew Thorne, tried to shake off the effects of the left right combination.
When she mustered enough energy, she got up but walked back to the neutral corner on rubberised legs, with a dazed look in her eyes to be revived by doctors even as Thorne waved the contest off.
All this time Alfred celebrated.
The win by Alfred has effectively closed the chapter of the Alfred/De Groot saga.
After posing with the President of Guyana, Bharrat Jagdeo, Alfred said, “it was great to put out such a performance in front of my home crowd and I was always convinced that I won the first fight.”
The 25-year-old added:“The De Groot page is turned, the De Droot chapter is closed. It is time for me to move on.” |
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Post by Dee Williams on Jun 7, 2010 12:02:20 GMT -5
Another report from Guyana: www.guyanachronicleonline.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14359:alfred-ko-de-groot-to-retain-world-title&catid=12:sports&Itemid=4Saturday June 5 was carved as a day local boxing fans will forever remember because of one person; Shondell Alfred, Guyana and the Women’s International Boxing Association (WIBA) Bantamweight champion.
Alfred met her foe, Corrine De Groot in a rematch for the title she won last year at the Cliff Anderson Sports Hall and it took her one minute, 23 seconds of the fourth of their 10 round encounter, to deliver one of the best Knock-outs ever seen in boxing to date.
The Princess Hotel and Casino was filled to capacity as even the Head of State, His Excellency President Bharrat Jagdeo was in attendance at the Bris ‘O’ Promotions card that saw Gwendolyn ‘The Stealth Bomber’ O’Neil winning her third world title (WIBA Heavyweight title) with a unanimous decision win over Veronica Blackman and Hector ‘Machito’ Camacho jr getting the same against Guyana’s Deadly Denny Dalton in the headline card.
Also gaining an entertaining win is Elton ‘Coolie Bully’ Dharry over the journeyman of the sport, Orland ‘Pocket Rocket’ Rogers.
It wasn’t suppose to be the main event but after Shondell’s display of brute force and class, nothing else mattered in the minds of those who witnessed a different fighter as compared to when she first won Guyana’s seventh world title last year.
De Groot had called for a rematch on the grounds that the then referee Eon Jardine, aided in her defeat to Alfred and WIBA President Ryan Wissow granted her the fight.
Her entrance to the ring (De Groot) was heralded with some boos from the crowd given the fact that many Guyanese felt she came across cocky in her attitude. Alfred on the other hand was ushered in with thunderous applauds as the capacity filled venue all rose to their feet to welcome the champion.
The eagerness to put De Groot to sleep could have been sensed from the opening round as Alfred wasted no time to launch at her opponent with vengeance but yet still tactically planned her every attack.
All the rounds were the same until the third when the Guyanese hurt the American in the closing minutes of the round and De Groot was like ‘Zack’, the famous character from the hit sitcom ‘Saved by the bell’.
Noticing De Groot was weakened from the blows of the previous round; Alfred came out like an assassinator in round four and went straight for the kill which she got in dramatic fashion.
A three shot combination did the damage – it started with a launching right, then a hard left which followed by a jaw twisting right that sent De Groot threw the ropes on the canvas.
The crowd were more amazed than shocked and took sometime to respond to what unfolded before there eyes as even President Jagdeo sitting ring-side couldn’t help standing to join Alfred in celebration.
There was no way the referee, who this time was Andrew Thorne, could be blamed for handing Alfred the win. As a matter of fact, De Groot would want to thank the referee who called it quits and summoned the Doctor to the ring, since she was out cold. |
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Jun 12, 2010 12:57:05 GMT -5
this is an interview DeGroot gave before the fight - she touches on a couple of different subjects such as the men's side of boxing and why boxing fans should support women's boxing. She gives very personable answers - a fun read! Check it out www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTICLE/2501/2010-04-20.html |
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Post by TD on Jun 12, 2010 14:08:53 GMT -5
I still take my hat off to Corinne for going into Shondel's backyard TWICE. It takes guts, fire, talent and apparently a little luck. Corinne got hosed on the "luck" aspect. I heard, I haven't seen it, that she took a shot to the temple and it completely short circuited her equilibrium. You might remember Bridgett Riley experiencing the same thing.
Maybe Shondel will visit Corinne in Atlanta...not likely as the HOME_LEE fighters stay at home. Halmich comes to mind...you couldn't get her out of germany if you used an oyster shucking knife.
Lucky shots happen. I say lucky because NOT alot of punches are thrown at the temple so the ones that land are sorta lucky ones. Corinne is most likely too embarrassed to talk about it. But I hope she will and I hope she overcomes it and fights again.
I read her interview about women's boxing...she misses one critical aspect, Mens boxing always has an upcoming highlight bout. A brawl for big money and bragging rights that always supercharges fan interest. Women's boxing hasn't had one of those since Lamare v. Mathis. In the states, few saw either of those fights. Lamare got hosed in the first one and lost the second one by a nacho.
TD
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Jun 13, 2010 12:24:48 GMT -5
Corinne comes across as a very articulate person, but I think her fighting days are done/over. She got crushed and crumpled in the second fight. The fight could have been held on one of the moons of Jupiter = same outcome.
side note - Mosley-Mayweather sucked
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Post by TD on Jun 13, 2010 20:37:07 GMT -5
Todd...did you see a replay of the fight?
If Corinne could not get off and did not throw and took a non-stop beating, then she's done. I don't know that for a fact. The story was she took a shot to the temple.
Take a look at turning point in Holly's career, when Trish Hill flattened her, she got back up to fight another day. Sure, it changed her style but she got back on the horse. I think it made her MORE determined.
Corinne went down there very motivated. When a wipe out happens in the ring, it's not always a symptom of a finished fighter. But I'll reserve any opinion until I see a replay.
HBO fights in general suck. And the telecasts are even worse. Kinda makes me miss the days when George Foreman would say something from "space" just to get Merchant riled up and Lampley even more confused.
TD
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Post by Todd Bykerk on Jun 19, 2010 14:28:30 GMT -5
there was only ONE interesting thing from the Mosley HBO fight against Mayweather. And that was when they showed the fighters getting taped. Did anyone else get a kick out of watching Naazim Richardson STAND RIGHT OVER MAYWEATHER? I mean he was like within one foot of the taping. Now that's how it needs to be done every single time. Often times, I am more entertained by Merchant and company etc. than the fights. As for Holm getting put on her butt by Trish Hill, that was really early in Holly's career. Wasn't she like 22 or 23? and no, I have not seen a replay of the fight yet. But back to HBO for a second. Even though Adam Pollack wrote this back in 2006, it still rings true today. the first two paragraphs pertain to women's boxing being televised.... cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/0106-pollack.html |
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Post by Rick Scharmberg on Jun 19, 2010 19:24:13 GMT -5
Corrine needed a few tune up fights first. Just stating the obvious..
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?? Alves had Corinne at 90 and Sullivan had her at 90. 