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Post by computerrank on May 7, 2010 12:57:33 GMT -5
Menzer (#2 Boxrec Featherweight) vs Garside (#1 Boxrec Featherweight) scheduled for July 3, 2010 in Stuttgart, Germany great match-up! source - Universum Boxing Promotion: www.boxing.de |
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Post by Martin Peters on May 8, 2010 1:42:50 GMT -5
Completely agree. And Garside has a chance to win by KO, in my opinion. That way, we wouldn't have to depend on dodgy judges and their strange scoring systems!
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Post by Dee Williams on May 8, 2010 11:08:41 GMT -5
Ina Menzer (GE)
born 1980-11-10
Record: 26-0-0 (10 KOs)
Age: 29
Height: 5 ft 6 in
Last Weight: 125.25 lbs
featherweight
From: Minchengladbach, Germany
WIBF Feather; WBC Feather; WBO Feather
WBAN #1 ranked featherweight on 2010-May-02
www.wban.org/biog/imenzer.htm
Jeannine Garside (CA-ON)
born 1978-04-14
Record: 9-3-1 (4 KOs)
Age: 32
Height: 5 ft 5½ in
Last Weight: 125.25 lbs
featherweight
From: Windsor, ON, Canada
WBC Intl Feather; WIBA Feather; former WIBA Jr Feather; 40-5 amateur
WBAN #2 ranked featherweight on 2010-May-02
www.wban.org/biog/jgarside.htm
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Post by TD on May 8, 2010 13:06:40 GMT -5
Garside v. Menzer, one of the best match up in the short history of female boxing.
But Jeannine has to fight Menzer and 3 judges. Huge strategic disadvantage. But Jeannine knows this, she should throw for the KO from the second punch on. That could make it an even better fight for fans. But if she gets a tiny cut, or one knee bends a bit more or she wobbles just a bit from a Menzer punch, she has to know they will stop it and give it to Menzer. So every shot jeannine throws has to be a winner. Fighting any other way is totally useless and will result in the same old story.
Sandy can help her greatly too. Watch The Lil Tyson's win against Menzer, plenty of open secrets there on how to whip menzer's butt. I would ask Lucia Rijker to train her for this fight. Lucia had the singular ability to beat a right hand bomb thrower with her left hook. It was such a rare talent-technique that few trainers will teach it. But Lucia can show her. And Jeannine is fast enough, technically skilled enough, brave enough to make it work.
I would just love to see the Germans bring in Israeli judges, just once. Is that asking too much? NO, it is not. The whole world will be watching this fight so any monkey business will draw an outrage. IMO.
TD
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Post by Dee Williams on May 8, 2010 17:47:58 GMT -5
Jeannine has been cut in both of her last two fights (won both but a premature TKO on the road is a risk for her, as Menzer is a precise, hard puncher who will work on a cut).
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Post by TD on May 8, 2010 21:41:24 GMT -5
Dee/Todd and Boxing Fans around the world,
When should a cut stop a fight? Where is the cut located? The KEY first question.
SADLY, the answer in this fight is ; THE CUT HAPPENED IN GERMANY. There are NO other questions when the cut happens there.
Jeannine, you have to fight your ass off, kinda like the mongoose with two bazookas. Every shot has to be a winner and you to throw in 3s at least, then you have to move sideways. And then you have to throw for the fences in 3s at least, everything in every punch...then you have to move. Watch how Lucia creamed right hand throwers with her left hook. Its truely amazing to watch. But the right throwers stop throwing rights when they are getting whipped by counter hooks.
Plenty of fighters have layed a back alley pasting on Menzer and came home with a real nice thank you card and a big "L" on their records.
But if we find an Israeli judge, a Russian judge and a French judge...then it might be different. As the world knows, when Money Mayweather gets in the ring, he does not allow bullshit judging. And he shouldn't.
Who are the judges? Who is the ref? Does Jeannine get approval / review on judges? All a fighter can ask for is a fair fight and every fighter does that. So do the fans.
TD
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Post by Martin Peters on May 9, 2010 6:28:40 GMT -5
The various comments about the judges for this fight are all on the mark (including mine, lol!) but just one thing: a cut doesn't always stop the bout in Germany. Elena Reid was cut in her second fight against Regina Halmich and it went the full ten rounds.
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Post by Dee Williams on May 9, 2010 11:55:48 GMT -5
 Yes, and let's be clear who was saying what. I was not saying, like Todd or TD, that a cut on the visitor in Germany automatically stops a fight. Reid was cut between her eyes (and had a bloody nose). Her vision wasn't affected although she looked a mess and lots of photos got taken, the ref did the right thing allowing a still-competitive fight to continue. It's different when a deeper eyelid or eyebrow cut starts to affect vision, when blood gets into the eye from above and there's swelling affecting vision as well not just a lot of superficial bleeding like in Reid's fight. That's the WHERE that matters most. What I was saying is that Menzer is a precise hard puncher who can work on a more dangerous cut. That can create a much less clear situation than Reid's, more like the situation with Kuehne where the ref's judgment call is harder to make (and so it's easier for the shouting section to criticize the call later from the comfort of their computer chairs). That's also where home fighters can sometimes get more leeway than visitors, and NOT just in Germany. It's a known "road hazard" and not just in one place. People who make "blanket" cases are often being "woolly". The two go together IMO. |
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Post by Dee Williams on May 9, 2010 14:38:30 GMT -5
Yes the Kuehne fight was a different cut situation and that is why I mentioned it. Also I do not consider Todd part of the shouting section here, he knows how to disagree without being at all disagreeable. Now back to our regular program ...
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Post by TD on May 9, 2010 21:05:40 GMT -5
Yes, and let's be clear who was saying what. I was not saying, like Todd or TD, that a cut on the visitor in Germany automatically stops a fight. Reid was cut between her eyes (and had a bloody nose). Her vision wasn't affected although she looked a mess and lots of photos got taken, the ref did the right thing allowing a still-competitive fight to continue. It's different when a deeper eyelid or eyebrow cut starts to affect vision, when blood gets into the eye from above and there's swelling affecting vision as well not just a lot of superficial bleeding like in Reid's fight. That's the WHERE that matters most. What I was saying is that Menzer is a precise hard puncher who can work on a more dangerous cut. That can create a much less clear situation than Reid's, more like the situation with Kuehne where the ref's judgment call is harder to make (and so it's easier for the shouting section to criticize the call later from the comfort of their computer chairs). That's also where home fighters can sometimes get more leeway than visitors, and NOT just in Germany. It's a known "road hazard" and not just in one place. People who make "blanket" cases are often being "woolly". The two go together IMO. GUYS/DEE, you are missing the sneaky point of a improper cut stoppage. Matter of fact, you could say, IT CUTS BOTH WAYS. IF the "homer" is losing on the cards, and is cut, the fight will continue, if the homer is cut but winning on the cards then the fight will be stopped. Now, if the visitor is winning and she gets cut, the fight will NOT be stopped. If the visitor is losing and gets cut, its an early stoppage. Of course Dee cannot dispute any of this as her ratings always reflect the unstoppable will of the HOMER and the dim2slim prospects of the visitor. Thus, the advice, WHEN VISITING THROW YOUR ASS OFF BABY AND DON'T STOP. It is foolish and a waste of time to approach this any other way. In the upcoming Garside V. Menzer fight, if it were held in Paris, the odds would be, Pick'em. However, in Germany, I would say that it is 12 to 1 against Garside. So, I expect Ms. Garside to leap across the ring and start hammering. And always remember, the most important thing about a cut is the location. Knowhatimsayin Dee? TD |
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Post by Dee Williams on May 9, 2010 22:27:57 GMT -5
a premature TKO on the road is a risk for her That's also where home fighters can sometimes get more leeway than visitors, and NOT just in Germany. It's a known "road hazard" and not just in one place. GUYS/DEE, you are missing the sneaky point of a improper cut stoppage. Matter of fact, you could say, IT CUTS BOTH WAYS. IF the "homer" is losing on the cards, and is cut, the fight will continue, if the homer is cut but winning on the cards then the fight will be stopped. TD won't actually read what was said, but he has to say it himself and criticize other people for NOT having said it. Thanks for the extra explanation, TD, even if you're the only one here who actually needed it. Sheesh. |
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Post by Dee Williams on May 11, 2010 16:25:40 GMT -5
TD - I gave you a picture to make it easier for you to see why Reid's cuts were not of the fight-stopping variety just look a the picture and read the post, where I also pointed out that on the type of cuts that CAN lead to stoppages there's an advantage to the homer if she is given more leeway than a visitor. That is not an unique problem to Germany but it could be an issue for Garside-Menzer, which is why I brought it up (before you did but I don't suppose you'll notice that).
You seem to be just trying to pick another fight with me because you don't want anything here to be seen as true until YOU've said it. This is just another example of how you try to turn every discussion here into one where YOU get to tell everyone how right YOU are after first mis-reading or mis-restating what they actually said. That's a complete waste of everyone's time. I'm not going to get into another long drawn out argument with you as that just encourages you to the same behavior over and over.
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Post by TD on May 11, 2010 21:11:49 GMT -5
Hardly. Your opinion always matters. Hell, you do the ratings.
But we don't agree on this, that's why I persisted. You think "it can be a factor" and I say " it most definetly is a factor and has shown to be", you say Reid's cut was not a fight stopper due its nature, I say it's not a fight stopper if she was ahead on the cards. Big difference there. And arguement is good.
As my chinese friends say, "when 2 people in business agree, one of them is NOT needed."
ONWARD TO GERMANY. THE BOXING WORLD WILL BE WATCHING. DEE AND I WILL ARGUE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. PLACE MONEY ON IT.
TD
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Post by Dee Williams on May 12, 2010 8:25:06 GMT -5
you say Reid's cut was not a fight stopper due its nature, I say it's not a fight stopper if she was ahead on the cards. Big difference there. There would have been good reason for Reid to complain if the fight had been stopped. Those cuts were superficial, despite the large amount of blood. They were not affecting her ability to see. And the fight was not stopped because of the cut, as a previous poster said a "German" fight would be. What was the scoring on the cards at that point? This is from the second fight, which Reid lost (on the final scorecards). So why do you ask "if she was ahead"? Is that just speculation, or do you have some actual evidence that something was up? What we know is that the ref allowed Reid to fight on despite a messy cut. You seem to want to make that suspicious. Why? We also can't have an argument if Mr. "Initials" Tom De Napoli tries to create "facts" the same way Fox News does, by turning their own speculative questions into new "facts". It's a sleazy tactic where you first say "People are asking whether (fill in the blank with any sh*t that comes into your head)", then you go on to act like your question is the fact. It's a way to dress up a lowball cheap shot as a question. I showed Reid's cut(s) so everyone could judge them for themselves. What's he's trying to imply about the round-by-road scorecards is speculation (again, Reid lost on the final scorecards). TD's "if" is a way to be argumentative without actually having an argument on his side. There's a big difference between discussing something rationally and having an "argument" with you, Tom De Napoli! |
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Post by Jason Ozuma on May 23, 2010 17:20:03 GMT -5
Thanks todd for the article, one thing I was looking for in that article was about the judges. Garside's manager needs to make sure all the judges aren't German. In the recent fight with Susi K and Nadia, only the judge from out of the country was not handled by Universum. If Garside could get 4-6 judges, so that they could have more out of country boxers than German boxers. If they can do that then I think they could definitely win on the record.
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Post by Rick Scharmberg on May 25, 2010 12:54:58 GMT -5
Does anyone smell an upset?
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Post by Rick Scharmberg on May 25, 2010 12:58:10 GMT -5
actually, according to Boxrec, the upset would be Menzer winning.
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Post by TD on Jun 28, 2010 20:08:00 GMT -5
Todd...Josh Canty is a smart trainer. And Jeannine is a smart fighter. Tough too. But she might be letting her brains get in her way when it comes to fighting in Germany. She even knows what her odds are. She has to punch Menzer's head off and keep punching until someone pulls her off of Menzer. Its totally foolish to expect reasonable judging- FOOLISH AS HELL!
This could be a great fight. But if you want to watch Menzer take a beating and walk out the winner, watch the Lil Tyson Vs. Menzer fight. Sandy pounded her like she was a Texas Chicken Steak on two-for-one day at the Eat-a-teria in West Texas.
You also have to admit, Menzer will never really be a great fighter until she can win a fight away from home.
TD
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Post by TD on Jun 29, 2010 16:09:49 GMT -5
It looks like somebody has some serious sweating to do, and someone else is happy about that.
The Smart Marks/Euros are piling onto the Menzer side of the bet. I would say Garside is favored by 3 to 2 in Canada and USA and menzer is 4 to 1 for her in Germany. I like Jeannine! --- Dee, spell check that for me, would ya. Thanks honey!
TD
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