Post by TD on Aug 26, 2009 14:21:09 GMT -5
Sue Fox of WBAN has posted on what she see's as RED FLAGS for women's boxing. I have a ton of respect for Sue and she has many keen and correct insights into women's boxing.
However, IF an insight/opinion has been influenced by a "promoter", you can be sure that said opinion is jaded. Why would I say that...because PROMOTERS, weak ones, are ALL RED FLAG.
Has one promoter that spoke in your ear about a "red flag" fighter shown you an actual fight contract, shared with you their actual costs, told the absolute truth about how they conducted a negotiation with each fighter? Maybe, but I would doubt its veracity.
Lets look at some RED FLAGS and how a female boxer gotten to that RED FLAG label that Sue has pricked. And by the way, why not mention WHO exactly you have heaping the RED FLAG scorn upon...IF you truely believe in such a label?
"EXCUSES. Excuses, excuses---and more excuses. Boxing folks can fill in the blanks as to the many varying excuses we hear. Like I said, if it happens on occasion, or it is obvious that they in fact are not making excuses but have been truly harmed by what happened---no harm done. But when it becomes a negative pattern of every boxing event in their career---it eventually becomes a "Red Flag.""
My response, while NOT knowing the particular fighter: FIGHTERS BELIEVE IN THEMSELVES. THEY ALWAYS DOUBT THEIR DEFICIENCES. THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" BLAME GAME. It is amazing that WBAN can follow some particular boxers throughout the years, and it is a continuous onslaught of the "Blame Game." The funny thing is---with some of the boxers who fall into the "Blame Game", they never seem to see any fault of their own---It is always someone else."
My response, BLAME GAME IS SAME AS EXCUSE GAME. AGAIN, FIGHTERS ARE TAUGHT TO ALWAYS HAVE A GAME FACE. FOR INSTANCE, EVANDER HOLYFIELD WAS GIVEN A FLAGRANT DRAW AGAINST LENNOX LEWIS. NOBODY IN THE WORLD BELIEVED IT WAS A DRAW. WHEN ASKED WHAT HE THOUGHT, HE CLAIMED HE WAS NOT HIMSELF BUT HE THOUGHT HE WON.
"BELLIGERENT EMAILS / FORUM-BLOG POSTINGS. When things do not go their way, or they are challenged in any way when they take fights, lose fights, make promises, etc.----they literally come back swinging via email or on public /blog forums. They send the Emails or post on forums/blogs to anyone and everyone. Again---anyone can vent on occasion, but when it becomes a pattern----the boxers who choose this way of dealing with problems in the sport and they appear to do it every time they have a problem, or disagreement with someone in particular---they come off as being a serious "Red Flag"."
My response, WHAT ARE FIGHTERS SUPPOSED TO DO? TAKE THE ABUSE OR FIGHT BACK? THE FORUM IS THERE FOR THEIR EXPRESSION OF THEIR SIDE OF ANY SITUATION.
" LOOSE CANNONS. These women boxers just seem really "out there". These are the women who people will comment about, and inevitably question: "Did that boxer take one to many punches?" It is sad to see this "Red Flag", because many times, that boxer is very talented----but because she comes off so strange, off the wall, or weird, it will hinder her chances of succeeding in the sport."
My response, NOT EVERY FIGHTER HAS THE ABILITY TO CLEARLY EXPRESS THEMSELF. AND ONCE AGAIN, THEY ARE FIGHTERS, TAUGHT TO FIGHT. EVEN THRU POOR SELF-EXPRESSION!
" TAKING FIGHTS--THEN NOT TAKING THE FIGHT. Some of the women boxers are predictable when they take a fight--and that for one reason or another---they will not take the fight. WBAN could just about be a psychic in this area of "Red Flags". We have seldom been wrong when we see a particular boxer on a card, and know that somehow, some way, that boxer who does this as a pattern, will magically drop of the card."
My response, FIGHTERS ARE OFFERED POOR DEALS, THEN NOT, THEN THEY ARE. THEN THEY HEAR SOMETHING. THEN THEY RESPOND. USUALLY, IF AN OFFER IS GOOD, NO FIGHTER IS GOING TO POST-NEGOTIATE OR THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND A DECEITFUL/POORLY WRITTEN OR PURPOSEFULLY VAGUE CONTRACT TO BEGIN WITH.
"THE PLAYER. Lastly, these women boxers take a fight, then they try to make changes at the very end--just when the card is to take place. They want a bigger purse, even though they negotiated the purse already. They want more airline tickets even though they were contracted for so many airline tickets to get to a fight. They say they did their medicals, just to find out on the day of weigh-in, they didn't have the proper medical tests with them, causing a promoter to get them to a doctor (very fast and costly) to get them approved by the commission. They come in way over weight the day of the fight---not ever giving the promoter any time to know this problem is going to happen. They sometimes will make unreasonable requests because they know they can do it and so they play with the promoter over these last minute changes."
My response, ANY FIGHTER IN POOR SHAPE, PAYS A HEAVY TOLL, LOOKS BAD AND DEMINISHS THEIR FUTURE EARNING POTENTIAL. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE. BUT CONSIDER THIS, WHERE DID THE PLAYER LEARN THIS BEHAVIOR...?
I added CAPS only to differentiate and I state this so I don't to have to listen to dee-blowback re:all caps.
Again, what you find out in any fighter pre-fight negotiation story is that there are at least 3-6 actual stories. The promoters public story, the promoters real story, the fighters first response story, the public arguement story and then the counters back and forth story. Its true that is lame, weak and unfortunate...but until someone sets the rules for how it legally plays out...that's how the game is played.
Big male fighters have lawyers repping them, have PR agents to spin their story, have managers plotting and planning for them and even agents for negotating OTHER deals. These fighters are never FLAGGED for being loose CANNONS or PLAYERS or BLAMERS but they are just as much as all of Fox's red flag fighters...they just have alot of cushioning in between to take the heat, deflect the truth and of course, GET THE BEST DEAL.
Finally, I totally respect Sue Fox. I don't want this post to be constured as any kind of attack. Just a second thought/rebuttal on what appears to be major issues for the sport.
Also note this and note this well: BOXING IS ALL ABOUT THE FIGHTER. ALL ELSE IS SECONDARY TO THE FIGHTER. EVERYONE ELSE LIVES OFF THE FIGHTER'S TABLE. IT DOES THE SPORT WORLD WELL TO REMEMBER THAT AND TO RESPECT THAT. FEW DO. FEW EVEN AGREE WITH THAT.
TD
However, IF an insight/opinion has been influenced by a "promoter", you can be sure that said opinion is jaded. Why would I say that...because PROMOTERS, weak ones, are ALL RED FLAG.
Has one promoter that spoke in your ear about a "red flag" fighter shown you an actual fight contract, shared with you their actual costs, told the absolute truth about how they conducted a negotiation with each fighter? Maybe, but I would doubt its veracity.
Lets look at some RED FLAGS and how a female boxer gotten to that RED FLAG label that Sue has pricked. And by the way, why not mention WHO exactly you have heaping the RED FLAG scorn upon...IF you truely believe in such a label?
"EXCUSES. Excuses, excuses---and more excuses. Boxing folks can fill in the blanks as to the many varying excuses we hear. Like I said, if it happens on occasion, or it is obvious that they in fact are not making excuses but have been truly harmed by what happened---no harm done. But when it becomes a negative pattern of every boxing event in their career---it eventually becomes a "Red Flag.""
My response, while NOT knowing the particular fighter: FIGHTERS BELIEVE IN THEMSELVES. THEY ALWAYS DOUBT THEIR DEFICIENCES. THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" BLAME GAME. It is amazing that WBAN can follow some particular boxers throughout the years, and it is a continuous onslaught of the "Blame Game." The funny thing is---with some of the boxers who fall into the "Blame Game", they never seem to see any fault of their own---It is always someone else."
My response, BLAME GAME IS SAME AS EXCUSE GAME. AGAIN, FIGHTERS ARE TAUGHT TO ALWAYS HAVE A GAME FACE. FOR INSTANCE, EVANDER HOLYFIELD WAS GIVEN A FLAGRANT DRAW AGAINST LENNOX LEWIS. NOBODY IN THE WORLD BELIEVED IT WAS A DRAW. WHEN ASKED WHAT HE THOUGHT, HE CLAIMED HE WAS NOT HIMSELF BUT HE THOUGHT HE WON.
"BELLIGERENT EMAILS / FORUM-BLOG POSTINGS. When things do not go their way, or they are challenged in any way when they take fights, lose fights, make promises, etc.----they literally come back swinging via email or on public /blog forums. They send the Emails or post on forums/blogs to anyone and everyone. Again---anyone can vent on occasion, but when it becomes a pattern----the boxers who choose this way of dealing with problems in the sport and they appear to do it every time they have a problem, or disagreement with someone in particular---they come off as being a serious "Red Flag"."
My response, WHAT ARE FIGHTERS SUPPOSED TO DO? TAKE THE ABUSE OR FIGHT BACK? THE FORUM IS THERE FOR THEIR EXPRESSION OF THEIR SIDE OF ANY SITUATION.
" LOOSE CANNONS. These women boxers just seem really "out there". These are the women who people will comment about, and inevitably question: "Did that boxer take one to many punches?" It is sad to see this "Red Flag", because many times, that boxer is very talented----but because she comes off so strange, off the wall, or weird, it will hinder her chances of succeeding in the sport."
My response, NOT EVERY FIGHTER HAS THE ABILITY TO CLEARLY EXPRESS THEMSELF. AND ONCE AGAIN, THEY ARE FIGHTERS, TAUGHT TO FIGHT. EVEN THRU POOR SELF-EXPRESSION!
" TAKING FIGHTS--THEN NOT TAKING THE FIGHT. Some of the women boxers are predictable when they take a fight--and that for one reason or another---they will not take the fight. WBAN could just about be a psychic in this area of "Red Flags". We have seldom been wrong when we see a particular boxer on a card, and know that somehow, some way, that boxer who does this as a pattern, will magically drop of the card."
My response, FIGHTERS ARE OFFERED POOR DEALS, THEN NOT, THEN THEY ARE. THEN THEY HEAR SOMETHING. THEN THEY RESPOND. USUALLY, IF AN OFFER IS GOOD, NO FIGHTER IS GOING TO POST-NEGOTIATE OR THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND A DECEITFUL/POORLY WRITTEN OR PURPOSEFULLY VAGUE CONTRACT TO BEGIN WITH.
"THE PLAYER. Lastly, these women boxers take a fight, then they try to make changes at the very end--just when the card is to take place. They want a bigger purse, even though they negotiated the purse already. They want more airline tickets even though they were contracted for so many airline tickets to get to a fight. They say they did their medicals, just to find out on the day of weigh-in, they didn't have the proper medical tests with them, causing a promoter to get them to a doctor (very fast and costly) to get them approved by the commission. They come in way over weight the day of the fight---not ever giving the promoter any time to know this problem is going to happen. They sometimes will make unreasonable requests because they know they can do it and so they play with the promoter over these last minute changes."
My response, ANY FIGHTER IN POOR SHAPE, PAYS A HEAVY TOLL, LOOKS BAD AND DEMINISHS THEIR FUTURE EARNING POTENTIAL. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE. BUT CONSIDER THIS, WHERE DID THE PLAYER LEARN THIS BEHAVIOR...?
I added CAPS only to differentiate and I state this so I don't to have to listen to dee-blowback re:all caps.
Again, what you find out in any fighter pre-fight negotiation story is that there are at least 3-6 actual stories. The promoters public story, the promoters real story, the fighters first response story, the public arguement story and then the counters back and forth story. Its true that is lame, weak and unfortunate...but until someone sets the rules for how it legally plays out...that's how the game is played.
Big male fighters have lawyers repping them, have PR agents to spin their story, have managers plotting and planning for them and even agents for negotating OTHER deals. These fighters are never FLAGGED for being loose CANNONS or PLAYERS or BLAMERS but they are just as much as all of Fox's red flag fighters...they just have alot of cushioning in between to take the heat, deflect the truth and of course, GET THE BEST DEAL.
Finally, I totally respect Sue Fox. I don't want this post to be constured as any kind of attack. Just a second thought/rebuttal on what appears to be major issues for the sport.
Also note this and note this well: BOXING IS ALL ABOUT THE FIGHTER. ALL ELSE IS SECONDARY TO THE FIGHTER. EVERYONE ELSE LIVES OFF THE FIGHTER'S TABLE. IT DOES THE SPORT WORLD WELL TO REMEMBER THAT AND TO RESPECT THAT. FEW DO. FEW EVEN AGREE WITH THAT.
TD
