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Post by Dee Williams on May 28, 2009 8:06:34 GMT -5
Former NABF champ Monica Lovato will be co-headlining a King of the Cage MMA card in Ruidoso, N.M. on May 30. After her title fight with Melinda Cooper fell through, earlier this month, Lovato made a permanent switch from boxing to MMA. I think Lovato was about to get her head handed to her as a top level boxer and may be smart to bail out. She does wonderful work in her community through her boxing involvement but her future as a pro boxer did not look that good to me.
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Post by Dee Williams on May 28, 2009 10:16:29 GMT -5
To follow up, Monica appeared to me to be plateauing as a good, but not great, boxer who was inching up her record close to home against capable opponents. She avenged her only loss (to Julie Rubalcava) and won the NABF Junior Bantamweight title doing that. Her last three fights (two in Acoma, NM, one in Albuquerque, both close to her home base in Espanola and well attended by her fans) were all close. Carly Batey, a scrappy Brit without a lot of finesse but previously without a loss on her record, gave her a good fight and judge Ester Lopez gave Carly the fight 77-75 over Monica. This was only Batey's fifth pro fight, BTW, and she went on to split decision losses to hot prospects Kaleisha West and Ana Julaton
Next up for Monica was former world champ Mariana Juarez, coming back from her shoulder injury, flashy, aggressive, always fun to watch. Monica showed some strength by giving up her counterpunching style to trade with Mariana after getting behind early, and this was one of those fights where if you saw a lot of what you like coming from either fighter you could argue that she won it big. The judges were all over the map, one 98-92 for Monica , one 97-93 for Mariana, one 96-94 for Monica and a split decision that pleased the home fans and infuriated Mariana. Monica got the IBA belt out of this battle and Mariana was hot for a rematch in Mexico, to which Monica agreed but then pulled out of. Monica had not traveled beyond California as a pro and my guess is that a rematch in Mexico in front of Mariana's fans instead of her own would have been a whole different experience for her than their fight in Acoma.
Monica's last fight was in Albuquerque, defending her NABF title against unbeaten (3-0-2) Vegas based scrapper Crystal Hoy. Monica was a step up for Crystal who rose to the occasion by practically knocking Monica's head off in the seventh. Monica hit the deck twice, and may have been lucky the ref let her go on. It looked like it was all she could do to survive one more round, but she had just enough left to escape with a narrow decision. It's on YouTube.
Monica pulled out of the rematch with Mariana in Mexico but was then supposed to fight Melinda Cooper, who is one of the best out there but can't stay busy. After watching Lovato against Batey, Juarez and Hoy I figured she would have little chance against Cooper and the next logical steps on the road against other top fighters - Torres, Graf, Juarez, Knight - could all be very tough for her.
What she's done to use her boxing cred in NM to motivate kids in Espanola is great, a fine example of a boxer using her sport to give back to her local community in a big way. I hope she can ride the MMA wave to more wins that will help her keep that going and not be another one who decides she misses the boxing ring and tries to come back later - as her boxing opposition will get stronger.
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Post by Jason Ozuma on May 28, 2009 11:26:27 GMT -5
Good luck towards her goal of mma
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Post by John Hill on May 28, 2009 13:57:37 GMT -5
I know the money is there in MMA butalso the dangers of serious injuries and possible permanent ending of the athlele's career.Arm bar holds and leg holds if not stopped in time by the referee or tap out can be very serious and could side-line a fighter for months of healing. The money lures them but the risksare there. Elena Reid and Wendy Rodriguez also have fought MMA bouts.
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Post by Jason Ozuma on May 28, 2009 15:39:16 GMT -5
I know the money is there in MMA butalso the dangers of serious injuries and possible permanent ending of the athlele's career.Arm bar holds and leg holds if not stopped in time by the referee or tap out can be very serious and could side-line a fighter for months of healing. The money lures them but the risksare there. Elena Reid and Wendy Rodriguez also have fought MMA bouts. John who are they fighting against??
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Post by Dee Williams on May 28, 2009 17:24:58 GMT -5
I know the money is there in MMA but also the dangers of serious injuries and possible permanent ending of the athlele's career.Arm bar holds and leg holds if not stopped in time by the referee or tap out can be very serious and could side-line a fighter for months of healing. The money lures them but the risks are there. Elena Reid and Wendy Rodriguez also have fought MMA bouts. I'll stipulate that I hate watching MMA, but that's at least partly because I hate seeing people get punched in the face when they're down. I am also concerned about its economic effect pulling fans and fighters away from boxing in the US. However, I can understand some of the challenge it presents to the athletes because they have to be prepared for such a wide variety of strikes and attacks. I once asked Kim Messer what her favorite sport was, after she had switched into pro boxing, and she told me "I'd say I like Muay Thai the most because there's so many more weapons and combinations to use, more room to be creative. You can grab 'em by the neck, spin 'em, throw 'em up on the ropes, knee 'em, kick 'em, punch 'em ... there's just more stuff to do." I think some of the apeal of MMA to its participants is the extension of that to include ground fighting and grappling. However, one of the great things about boxing for me is exactly that it's NOT a free fight, it has a limited sub-set of all the fighting possibilities with rules that make it more like a chess game where a bad move gets you hit hard. I love to watch good boxing defense (that's where I end up at odds on this Forum with people who think an aggressor who "makes the fight" should always be the winner and anything else must be a stolen decision). Boxing is not just fighting, it's a subset of fighting within which we can have "sweet science" and a long tradition of how limiting the action through the rules allows certain styles to succeed. A great boxing matchup has a certain elegance with its violence and it's what I see as the absence of that that I dislike in MMA. This is all just preamble (sorry, I'll finally get there) to what I really want to say, to show I am not a lover of MMA when I say to John that I am not sure MMA is more dangerous than boxing. The darkest side of boxing for me is its potential for slow accumulation of brain-jarring injuries from punches that rotate the head. The brain is not like a bone - if you break it, it stays broken. It's soft tissue full of neurons banging around if you get hit from off axis and don't have a strong enough neck. I don't see the typical MMA fight as being more dangerous to the brain than a typical boxing fight, but I also think it will take time to tell which sport is really more dangerous. MMA fights are often stopped faster than one-sided boxing, and it's "ok" for an MMA fighter to tap put and submit while boxing has a tradition that you don't quit during a round - between the rounds, maybe, or staying on your knees after a knockdown - but quitting on your own while still standing up during a round isn't good for your career. We rely on corner people, refs and doctors to stop fights and expect boxers to take repeated head punishment before they fold, and it's the SLOW accumulation of brain damage in boxers that is the most serious single injury risk. MMA fighters may be in greater danger of breaking bones that will mend, but not of breaking neural connections that won't mend. I hate watching chokes etc. but the losers do get to tap out of them without being considered a wuss. I remember Laila Ali tauntng Erin Toughill that she could really hurt her in a boxing ring because "you can't tap out". Not her nicest moment, perhaps, but she was right. So there may be a wider range of injuries possible in what I think is the physically ugly sport of MMA, but I am not sure that it's really got a higher risk of serious, i.e. life-changing, injuries than the "sweet science".
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Post by John Hill on May 29, 2009 0:39:41 GMT -5
Jason, I don;t know much about their opponents in MMA. I think they prefer beginners that are about the same experience. I know in the case of Elana Reid that she set the pace to a boxers advantage by striking and avoidng theground game. Elana"s body punches won her the fight. I am glad you mentioned about fighters returning to the ring. In the case of Dee Dufoe I hope its true that she is returning. I was ringside in 1997 when Dee made her pro appearance and was very impressed with her preformance. Like Dee said she is well worth watching. Dee, I think that MMA is a fad at this time and when the glamour wears off a lot of fans will return to boxing as has been fora lot of years. I agreewith you I don;tlike seeing a fighter getting hit in the face overand over again whilebeing pined down with no way of defending themselves and having to rely on the judgement of the referee because they where unable to tap out. Those 4 ounce gloves can cause a lot of serious damage where as in boxing 8-10 ounce gloves gives a fighter more protection. Also in boxing you can takea knee to avoid further punishment. A boxer who never learns defense first in a perfect canditate for permanent brain damage and should never be allowed in the ring. Boxing commissions such as Nevada and New York do a good job of keeping fighters that have no defensive skills out of the ring. Unfortunely their is no federal rules so if your banned in one state you can go and fight in another state. I hope things will get better because I Love the sport of womems boxing.
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Post by Yvonne Reis on May 29, 2009 7:45:51 GMT -5
Ok - I just had my first MMA Fight May 14th - I lost - But I loved it. I was training for a Boxing fight but the contract never came so I had 2 weeks notice to get ground and kicking in. It went to the ground and was stopped. But I loved it and know that I needed more ground and leg work - I just wanted to get the first fight in.
I started as a kickboxer and wanted to compete so switch to Boxing. Don't get me wrong - I love boxing - but the corruption is overwhelming. It will also be in the MMA game but it is still new and the scummy promoters aren't into it yet - But they will be!
Look at least in MMA you don't need to have a perfect record. I beleive in learning from loses and working on what might have been the reason for losing - if you weren't just robbed which happens all to often.
In boxing people ask what is your record. They never ask - How many times have you fought the same guy to get that perfect record? In the begining women in the boxing world wanted to fight and would take fights in different weight division just to compete (I have fought in 5 myself). Now it is all about the pefect record -not who they fight - just like in Men's boxing!
This is Crap!!! I pride myself as trying to represent a modern female warrior (I would love to say just a warrior but I still need to say Female Warrior- for now) and have fought the best often in thier own Countries not just hometowns. But people just ask what is your record - I tell them and let thme draw thier own conclusions (They will anyway). I know who I have been in the ring with and I am proud of all my fights - I have4 learned from everyone!
I love the MMA thing and yes it could be just a fad, Women's Kickboxing was huge in 1990 to 1995. Then Women's Boxing came around with the first world title belts were offered, then the kick boxing died. Then you find most of the best Female Boxers retired in or around 2000. Why because it died down. Boxing had a resurgence and now it is MMA. Fade probably but the fact is they are all fades and like all fades they appear then disappear then reappear.
As for me (not that anyone cares- but) just tell me the rules - if you want me to dip my hands in glass and fight under those rules then I am so there. I just want to continue to test myself and beleive most women feel the same way.- We just want to (for lack of a better word) FIGHT!
Peace Yvonne
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Post by Dee Williams on May 29, 2009 8:47:18 GMT -5
In WBAN rankings only the most recent result counts if you have multiple fights with the same fighter. We explicitly exclude repeat fights to address what Yvonne is saying here. I hope that John is right when he says MMA is just a fad, but in the US right now there is very little boxing male or female on TV apart from PPV cards but MMA/UFC is everywhere. Women's matches on TV in either are rare. MMA benefits from the general popularity of "extreme" sports where everything is "new". Part of the rush for women's boxing turn of the century was it was "new", "shocking" too, with women "invading" an all-male club of sorts but that buzz has worn off now in many countries. The rapid growth for women's pro boxing in the US was from 1996 to 1998 www.womenboxingrecords.com/results/quarterly_usa.htm but now we are back to 1997 levels. Not so in the world as a whole where the US decline has been a time of increase elsewhere www.womenboxingrecords.com/results/quarterly.htm but there may be some falloff now probably from the damage to the economy done by another form of "extreme" sport - leveraged gambling with borrowed money 2009Q2 is only 2/3 done though so we may catch up again before it's over. Germany picked up in 2004 to 2007 www.womenboxingrecords.com/results/quarterly_germany.htm and places like Argentina www.womenboxingrecords.com/results/quarterly_argentina.htm and Mexico www.womenboxingrecords.com/results/quarterly_mexico.htm are where it's still growing now. When you look at how these countries promote, televise and report their women's boxing fights you can maybe see why. Maybe it's all fads coming and going like Yvonne says, with nothing really catching on for long. That's why our next best media shot may be extra attention attracted to women's boxing in the London Olympics, if the amateur sport makes it past the IOC decision this Fall. I hope that's an incentive for some younger fighters to stay in boxing for a while and not go this MMA route.
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Post by Jason Ozuma on May 29, 2009 13:50:15 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Scharmberg on Jun 1, 2009 13:12:45 GMT -5
Ok - I just had my first MMA Fight May 14th - I lost - But I loved it. I was training for a Boxing fight but the contract never came so I had 2 weeks notice to get ground and kicking in. It went to the ground and was stopped. But I loved it and know that I needed more ground and leg work - I just wanted to get the first fight in. I started as a kickboxer and wanted to compete so switch to Boxing. Don't get me wrong - I love boxing - but the corruption is overwhelming. It will also be in the MMA game but it is still new and the scummy promoters aren't into it yet - But they will be! Look at least in MMA you don't need to have a perfect record. I beleive in learning from loses and working on what might have been the reason for losing - if you weren't just robbed which happens all to often. In boxing people ask what is your record. They never ask - How many times have you fought the same guy to get that perfect record? In the begining women in the boxing world wanted to fight and would take fights in different weight division just to compete (I have fought in 5 myself). Now it is all about the pefect record -not who they fight - just like in Men's boxing! This is Crap!!! I pride myself as trying to represent a modern female warrior (I would love to say just a warrior but I still need to say Female Warrior- for now) and have fought the best often in thier own Countries not just hometowns. But people just ask what is your record - I tell them and let thme draw thier own conclusions (They will anyway). I know who I have been in the ring with and I am proud of all my fights - I have4 learned from everyone! I love the MMA thing and yes it could be just a fad, Women's Kickboxing was huge in 1990 to 1995. Then Women's Boxing came around with the first world title belts were offered, then the kick boxing died. Then you find most of the best Female Boxers retired in or around 2000. Why because it died down. Boxing had a resurgence and now it is MMA. Fade probably but the fact is they are all fades and like all fades they appear then disappear then reappear. As for me (not that anyone cares- but) just tell me the rules - if you want me to dip my hands in glass and fight under those rules then I am so there. I just want to continue to test myself and beleive most women feel the same way.- We just want to (for lack of a better word) FIGHT! Peace Yvonne You're a class act, Yvonne. Good luck with MMA.
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